Trouble In The Netherlands
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- AoM
- Posts: 1806
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Schme... you are either acting incredibly stupid and daft just to antagonize me, or you are an idiot.
Either way, you're not taking anything I've said to heart. You're arguing over all the wrong details, and you're even bringing new arguements out of the blue where none had existed before.
And the idea of sarcasm seems to have escaped you. My use of Billy Joel was to semi-mock Pie's extremely strange need to bring music into this arguement about religion.
FYI: Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young" is not about martyrdom. It's about getting a Catholic girl to put out before marriage. Try listening to the lyrics...
Although you haven't really proven yourself to be a very good listener, now have you...
As for faith being based upon logic and reason...
faith n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
source: Dictionary.com
Enough. You lose. The only person in your corner on this is Pie. 'nuf said.
Either way, you're not taking anything I've said to heart. You're arguing over all the wrong details, and you're even bringing new arguements out of the blue where none had existed before.
And the idea of sarcasm seems to have escaped you. My use of Billy Joel was to semi-mock Pie's extremely strange need to bring music into this arguement about religion.
FYI: Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young" is not about martyrdom. It's about getting a Catholic girl to put out before marriage. Try listening to the lyrics...
Although you haven't really proven yourself to be a very good listener, now have you...
As for faith being based upon logic and reason...
faith n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
source: Dictionary.com
Enough. You lose. The only person in your corner on this is Pie. 'nuf said.
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Racetyme wrote:Schme, get a life. I burned out on your post after one paragraph.
Guess what? I don't give a shit. If you can't read, it's not my problem. What, you need an explosion or something to keep you interested? If you have nothing to say, don't speak.
And stop telling people you don't know to get a life, kid.
Racetyme wrote:Meh, or I could just be kick ass at reading and too lazy and uninterested in the topic to read his long winded rant.
Or illiterate.
(I’m just joking. I understand.)
Nick wrote:
Bingo. I don't appreciate being called idiotic for my views, Schme. If you didn't understand my post, but this 14 year old did, who's the idiot?
I didn't call you an idiot, guy. You're the one going around saying "You don't agree with me! You're an idiot! You understand nothing!"
You're a master of debate, aren't you Nick?
I not try to make anyone look like an idiot. If you end up looking bad, it's not because of anything I did.
Nick wrote:But the point is, if your parents were Buddhist, you'd probably be Buddhist. Yet whatever you are, your religion is "right", everyone else's is "wrong".........If Constantine had decided that Islam was the way to go, Christians would be a minoirity, if not considered a cult, if there would be any Christians whatsoever.
So what?
I've said everything I have to say about it. It's not like I didn't know any of that. I stand by what I said, even after having read stuff I already knew.
The term paganism predates the existence of Islam, though.
I’m stupid, am I AoM? Of course, what was I thinking! Only a fool would question AoM in all his mighty wisdom! What a fool am I!
Too call someone stupid just because they disagree with you shows your arguments to be weak. If I was really as stupid as you say, then you would not have to say it, and my own writing would give me away.
I’m not taking anything you said to heart? Like what? That “The Catholic church is Orthodox. It’s views are orthodox, which I don’t like.” Like that?
New arguments out of the blue where none existed before? AoM, don’t act foolish. You are entirely able to comprehend that things are connected to each other. If I’m pulling arguments out of the blue, why don’t you say what they are?
Is it possible that you are saying that because you cannot refute any of my “randomly come up with” arguments?
Speaking of which, you have refuted nothing I’ve said. Rather, you’ve talked about a song.
You’ve also mocked the holy scriptures of my belief, and what brought me too it, based on the definition you found in an online dictionary.
Guess what? I don’t care about what you’re online dictionary.
I said that I came find the whatI believe in too be true by taking what the holy scriptures said and thinking of them in the context of real life. Deal with it, and don’t mock my faith, especially seeing as you’ve not read a damn thing and you dismissed Catholicism as wrong in it’s entirety.
And as for Pie, you’re just putting two people who be disagreeing with you together. Just because we are arguing with you does not mean our opinions are the same. We’re two different people, who both happen to arguing with you. We’re not part of some anti AoM collective.
And about the song. You’re right. I didn’t understand it. My first language is not English, and so I misunderstood most of it, as it turns out. I thought he was just talking about Catholic girls in general when he said that. And the state of Virginia. I have to say I’m very surprised. At least I know now.
But lose the whole “You lose I win” deal. Nobodies going to “win”.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."
Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin
- Racetyme
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- Nick
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Schme wrote:I didn't call you an idiot, guy. You're the one going around saying "You don't agree with me! You're an idiot! You understand nothing!"
You're a master of debate, aren't you Nick?
I not try to make anyone look like an idiot. If you end up looking bad, it's not because of anything I did.
Uh, I didn't say those words, this is a good example (not hard to find with you) of putting words in people's mouths.
What YOU say is that you don't try to degrade people, but then in the SAME POST you make fun of me. Not to mention that other post where you generalised the whole player base as young children and drug addicts, like you're above everyone else.
Please, if you're going to be insulting, don't do it half-assed. Either you're trying to be insulting or not. If you don't want to be insulting, it's not hard NOT to do. But if you do want to insult people, don't go around claiming you're not trying to, or complain at people who do.
- AoM
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Racetyme, you're supposed to say that there's a lot of "mass debating" going on here.
Schme. I could sit here and refute everything you have to say until the Rapture comes. I guarantee you that I could. But I'm not. Why? Because, quite simply, it's not worth the effort. Maybe it's because english is your second language and you take some things too literally, but for whatever reason, you have consistently managed to misinterpret my points and then draw illogical conclusions designed specifically to attack my intelligence rather than what I was saying in the first place. So in effect, your own writing and use of fallacies does show that you're an sub-par debater. This all started out by me simply giving my opinion, and you got hung up on me calling the Catholic church "orthodox." (Which it is, under an accepted definition of the term.)
By the way, I am very familiar with the Bible. I own two different versions of it, along with a copy of the Holy Qu'aran. I know many of the lessons, and if you asked me to lead a Catholic mass, I could probably come very darn close to getting all the words right, because I was an alter boy throughout my childhood and I liked to pay attention to what the priests said. My problems with the Catholic Church do not stem from a lack of understanding of the faith. I understand your scriptures perfectly well.
If my doubts about heavy-handed, established religion anger or frustrate you, Schme, perhaps you should ask yourself why? As rational beings, we are obligated to question our beliefs constantly, because only by coping with the questioning of our beliefs are we able to firmly stand beside them. I questioned my faith long ago, and decided that I could not stay true to myself and continue to believe in the established doctrines of Catholicism. I encourage other people, like yourself, to question your own faith. Not because I don't think you should believe, but because I think you ought to be damned certain about what you do believe.
Kinda like how I managed to change your belief about that Billy Joel song. (Don't take that last sentance too literally. Obviously I know that questioning faith and questioning song lyrics are two different things... I'll just cut you off before you write 10 paragraphs on it and talk yourself into another arguement.)

Schme. I could sit here and refute everything you have to say until the Rapture comes. I guarantee you that I could. But I'm not. Why? Because, quite simply, it's not worth the effort. Maybe it's because english is your second language and you take some things too literally, but for whatever reason, you have consistently managed to misinterpret my points and then draw illogical conclusions designed specifically to attack my intelligence rather than what I was saying in the first place. So in effect, your own writing and use of fallacies does show that you're an sub-par debater. This all started out by me simply giving my opinion, and you got hung up on me calling the Catholic church "orthodox." (Which it is, under an accepted definition of the term.)
By the way, I am very familiar with the Bible. I own two different versions of it, along with a copy of the Holy Qu'aran. I know many of the lessons, and if you asked me to lead a Catholic mass, I could probably come very darn close to getting all the words right, because I was an alter boy throughout my childhood and I liked to pay attention to what the priests said. My problems with the Catholic Church do not stem from a lack of understanding of the faith. I understand your scriptures perfectly well.
If my doubts about heavy-handed, established religion anger or frustrate you, Schme, perhaps you should ask yourself why? As rational beings, we are obligated to question our beliefs constantly, because only by coping with the questioning of our beliefs are we able to firmly stand beside them. I questioned my faith long ago, and decided that I could not stay true to myself and continue to believe in the established doctrines of Catholicism. I encourage other people, like yourself, to question your own faith. Not because I don't think you should believe, but because I think you ought to be damned certain about what you do believe.
Kinda like how I managed to change your belief about that Billy Joel song. (Don't take that last sentance too literally. Obviously I know that questioning faith and questioning song lyrics are two different things... I'll just cut you off before you write 10 paragraphs on it and talk yourself into another arguement.)
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The Etymology of the word pagan has little to do with it's modern usage, Neo Paganism is actually a general term like christianity, with many forms believing in a group of pre-christian common beliefs and moralities. These include some of the ones absorbed by the other religions, such as the rule/commandment/thingy (I'm bad at describing it) "Do to others no harm" and a deep belief in nature as a metaphysical entity. Usually it is polytheistic, but occasionaly it can be close to deiist (Beliving in a non-sentient higher power as opposed to a thinking or anthropomorphic god).
I personally believe in a mix of both, with a personification of natural forces which is part of a much greater thing.
I personally believe in a mix of both, with a personification of natural forces which is part of a much greater thing.
Mistress's Puppy
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Racetyme wrote:Schme wrote:You're a master of debate, aren't you Nick?
Please, we prefer the term master debater. (say it out loud if you don't get it, yes I know it's not very funny)
Or, if you're fisherman, you could be a master baiter.
Nick, c’mon, don’t pretend not to understand things. I did not say that you wrote that word for word. I was saying that in your writing you said that (like I said, not word for word.)
Also, I only compared the player base to drug addicts and young children. I did not say that they we’re entirely composed of these. And what do you care, anyway? What’s that matter? See, when I say that, it make me look bad, not the other player.
And Nick, insulting someone is very different from making them look bad. I said don’t want to make anyone look stupid. I never said I’m not insulting. I’m not trying to be. If I was specifically trying to be insulting, I’d just be profane, rude and vulgar.
Making someone would look stupid can be insulting, but you can’t make someone look stupid by being insulting.
AoM, if I was a bad debater, and if it was shown in my writing, like you said, then you wouldn’t have to say it, as it would be apparent. You continually say that my logic is flawed, but you never say how, which seems to be the next logical step after stating that mine is flawed. Why is it that you don’t?
And I say to you again that the Catholic church is not orthodox. A religion cannot be orthodox. Someone can be an orthodox follower of a religion, but a religion cannot be orthodox. If you can’t understand that, there’s no way I can make you.
And good for you, having so many great books in your house. Even if you don’t believe, it’s always good to read holy scriptures. Most of them are very interesting (with a notable exception of most of the biblical scriptures. I don’t really find that much of it all to interesting.) and It’s good to know in case it ever comes up in conversation. Enrich your mind, eh? Good on you.
It’s not that you don’t believe in Catholic doctrine. I do not at all care. Most of the people I know are not Catholic, or Christian for that matter. It’s that calling the catholic church an “orthodox church” does not make sense. It’s not something you can say and still make any sense.
I appreciate you trying to send me on a soul search sort of thing, but believe me, I started one a long time ago, and I’m still not done finished.
If you ask me, the word pagan was a broad generalization when it was first used, and is by now extremely outdated.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."
Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin
- Nick
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- Nick
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Do you know how long it took me, and how much revision I needed to do (I even needed to get it proofread from a friend!) in order to write the main welcoming letter on the ground of Romov?
Although if you want to summarise what kind of society you are running in three paragraphs, and convince people to listen to you, it is important that those three paragraphs are gramatically correct.
My French is from the (minimally) core french we're taught every year, and (most of my written and grammar knowledge) learned in 2 years of french immersion, and (conversationally, and increasing my vocabulary) 3 years in a predominantly french town.

Although if you want to summarise what kind of society you are running in three paragraphs, and convince people to listen to you, it is important that those three paragraphs are gramatically correct.

My French is from the (minimally) core french we're taught every year, and (most of my written and grammar knowledge) learned in 2 years of french immersion, and (conversationally, and increasing my vocabulary) 3 years in a predominantly french town.
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Well, the grammar is perfect there. Worth it, I suppose.
I've always found that it's speaking with people and getting in the culture that helps one learn a language best. School never did much for me language wise. Or really anything at all, for that matter.
I've always found that it's speaking with people and getting in the culture that helps one learn a language best. School never did much for me language wise. Or really anything at all, for that matter.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."
Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin
- AoM
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For some reason I always thought that Nick was fluent in French... *shrug*
@Schme: I already pointed out the straw man fallacy in a previous post. That was when I was trying to point out your illogical arguement.
If it will help to clarify things... the views of the Catholic Church are orthodox relative to the mainstream secular views in society today. It is in this sense that I refer to Catholicism as "orthodox."
@Schme: I already pointed out the straw man fallacy in a previous post. That was when I was trying to point out your illogical arguement.
If it will help to clarify things... the views of the Catholic Church are orthodox relative to the mainstream secular views in society today. It is in this sense that I refer to Catholicism as "orthodox."
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I wouldn’t know. I don’t actually know Nick.
And what do you mean by that? Which society do you mean? And do you mean that their views are in line with that societies views, or that they are not? And then theirs the many many different views contained within a society (even excluded to the secular camps).
See, you can’t say that. It makes not sense. It’s like saying (to cite that famous thing) “All me have red hair.”
You see what I mean?
And what do you mean by that? Which society do you mean? And do you mean that their views are in line with that societies views, or that they are not? And then theirs the many many different views contained within a society (even excluded to the secular camps).
See, you can’t say that. It makes not sense. It’s like saying (to cite that famous thing) “All me have red hair.”
You see what I mean?
"One death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics."
Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin
- AoM
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- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:52 am
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Apparently I am missing what you are trying to say, Schme. I believe that what I said did make sense.
Are you asking me to define mainstream society to you? Do you know what mainstream means?
I'm talking averages, here. The average person living in, oh, let's say the North American continent... Probably has some faith, probably isn't a hardliner about it though.
You've got mormons vs jack-mormons
You've got catholics vs the people who go only to Easter and Xmas mass.
You've got orthodox Judaism vs reformed Judaism
You've got hard atheists vs agnostics
Chances are, in mainstream, north american society, that you've got more people who are moderates about their faith as opposed to people who are hard-liners. I think the world has become a far more secular place than it used to be. That's what gives words like orthodox meaning. Traditional, older belief systems.
Are you understanding me?
Are you asking me to define mainstream society to you? Do you know what mainstream means?
I'm talking averages, here. The average person living in, oh, let's say the North American continent... Probably has some faith, probably isn't a hardliner about it though.
You've got mormons vs jack-mormons
You've got catholics vs the people who go only to Easter and Xmas mass.
You've got orthodox Judaism vs reformed Judaism
You've got hard atheists vs agnostics
Chances are, in mainstream, north american society, that you've got more people who are moderates about their faith as opposed to people who are hard-liners. I think the world has become a far more secular place than it used to be. That's what gives words like orthodox meaning. Traditional, older belief systems.
Are you understanding me?
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