The Art of Roleplay

[Torch]

And any writing teacher will say that the most important thing to remember is show, don't tell. (Especially when you're dealing with a game like Cantr, played from a second person POV. It's not an never has been omniscient.)

Exactly! You're statement is probably a big reason I notice this a lot too, as I also write fiction. (No, not published, although I do have a few things in the works and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.) It's amazing how many people have the POV issue when they write, using third person omniscient and skipping from POV to POV without even realizing it. Of course it's also easy to do if one doesn't pay attention.

Although I do give leeway in-game, if somebody did it every time that would probably annoy me too. That's a tough one, though, because to keep my own rules, I'd have to have another pretty compelling reason (IC) to have the character leave. Unless of course the psychic abilities freaked him/her out enough that he/she had to get away from the person causing them.

Oooh - characters transmitting emotions and thoughts could be seen as witches. "Welcome to Salem. Burn the witches!"

[Lumin]

What kind of stuff do you write? Anything you can give me a link to? I scribble down the occasional fantasy or sci-fi story myself, but I'll read just about genre.

And as for the character I mentioned, she'd been planning to eventually go on a gathering trip, so she did have an IC reason to leave, though the annoying char was definitely a factor in her getting involved in a different town and deciding not to return.

[Torch]

I write fantasy (not hero-quest or sword-and-sorcery type stuff) and science fiction. I'll IM you to keep from hijacking the thread.

[Nick]

This has been one of Cantr's longet standing arguments.
I've summarised it like this.
You, torch, are what I like to call a "society simulator".
The rest, who believe that good RP is worth more than realism (ie: getting married very like real life ceremonies, just because it's easier that way and a good chance for RP) and who believe that adding *asterixes* makes somebody a better role player... I call these guys "RPers"

Luckily, in my mind I consider Jos to be one who supports the "society simulator" of Cantr (although some have told me otherwise). What he says no and yes to in terms of suggestions and discussions leads me to believe this so. So I think that as long as Jos is the head cheese of this game, we wont' be terribly pulled towards the RPer direction. However, I think most of the population of Cantr are RPers... and I've always wanted Jos and the rest of the powers that be to accept suggestions that follow the real principles of Cantr, which I believe to be that it is a society simulator, not an RPG (Yes, we classify it as an RPG on game lists... but there is no 'society simulator' category). I think most of the powers that be agree with this, however I think that sometimes they get tugged on by the majority of players who want Cantr to be an RPG.

I could write an essay on this, if I wasn't so lazy. But let's just say I hope Cantr remains the net's society simulator. Not just another RPG.

[Sho]

I've got a big post or two out there that'd go well with that essay. Count me in as a society simulator.

[Mafia Salad]

I think both are important to Cantr. And I try to play both by seeing problems IC and having my characters try to fix them. So far only one of my characters has found a problem that she is going to try to solve. A few I have a goals in mind for them, but am waiting for more stuff to happen to or around them so they can to put the pieces together and make it their goals instead of mine. Which will probably be a little different than what I had in mind but more appropriate for their setting. And the rest are still in the discovery stage of life.

My oldest is 23 I don't think it makes sense to give all my characters goals and ambitions before they know what life is like.

Goals are what I play for long term, RP is what keeps me playing day to day

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Everyone will have differing opinions on the matter... and none of the opinions are right or wrong... I say, do your own thing, and enjoy the game in the way you prefer to... Though it is an interesting discussion to follow...

[EchoMan]

Goals are what I play for long term, RP is what keeps me playing day to day

I have to agree to that. My characters are all young and though I have plans for several of them the RP is what makes it fun meanwhile.

[Surly]

The term 'society simulator' is a total copout, and a misnomer to boot.

What is a society simulator? The way people seem to talk about it implies that Cantr is solely about forming societies, and the people who support this theory are those who think it is better RP to just get jobs done and those that 'RP' are not playing the game correctly.

However, in my opinion, Cantr is a role-playing game - much more so than a society simulator. Society is secondary, it may be the inevitable result but it should not, under any means, be the sole aim. Each character should concentrate, simply, on playing their role - just as the players should concentrate on playing the role of their character. To even think about Cantr as a 'society simulator' is to fundamentally defeat the purpose of Cantr; by defining from the start what you want the game to be, effectively plastering a 'goal' on the game and a way to win, Cantr becomes limited and therefore loses its uniqueness. Society should be a possible result of character development, not the intent of the game.

For me, Cantr's appeal lies in the ability to play any role. Skills and other changes have severely curtailed the freedom in this area, but it remains so for me. People blast the barter economy, but refuse to see that that is the natural economy for Cantr - they are so caught up in the 'society simulator' tag, that they judge Cantr solely by their own modern standards.

That said, if Cantr was a society simulator, it has failed in that regard. Cantr does not simulate society, it can never simulate society; it has to be different.

However, against all the things I've just said: Cantr is a game. You are deluding yourself to think otherwise. It has to be fun, stimulating and enjoyable otherwise no-one will play. It isn't some kind of experiment, because there are can be no natural development in such a game.

ENDNOTE: I have missed out alot of points, and my writing wasn't that clear... but it is 1:30am, and I am tired. So deal with it. I'll come back and defend myself later, and if anyone wants me to explain any one point, I will do that also.

[Theon Stark]

Goals are what I play for long term, RP is what keeps me playing day to day

I have to agree to that. My characters are all young and though I have plans for several of them the RP is what makes it fun meanwhile.

Same for me too, i see what situation and town my charries are in, then decide on what to do with them based on the enviroment and the other people in it, often changing what my charries going to do because of what else has happened.

Not a fan of people who's chars spawn and then they decide they're going to do xxxxx regardless of where they are and who they're with

[Torch]

I'm not sure I'm on the same page with you there. You seem (to me) to be talking about a simulator for our (real life) society, not a society simulator.

What you've described, with each character playing out his/her roles as they wish, is a society. It may not resemble ours in some ways, it may in others. The mechanics of the game and the systems that work and don't work due to these fundamental in-game "laws" (physics, availability of items) and tendencies (lack of currency, etc) aren't what I was speaking of earlier. The discussion that brought most recent comments up was over the *actions/thoughts/emotions* tags that players use. By the "laws of physics" of Cantr, I can't read your characters' minds. However when emotion and thought tags are used, that's basically what's happening. So in the strictest sense, they violate the laws of physics of Cantr as they stand, unless the viewpoint taken is that people are telepathically able to send out those things when they want but you can't read other people at will.

If Cantr were to work exactly like real society in every detail I'd never play. I can get that by walking out my front door.

I held the same opinion long ago when playing D&D and other games, as people would describe not only their actions but their intentions and emotions. While that "society" is obviously nothing like ours, the interaction rules, in my opinion, should still be limited by who's got psychic abilities and who doesn't.

And as many have said, unless it is excessive its usually ignored or overlooked at least. Although in my own perfect little world everyone would force me to figure these things out on my own.

*goes back to contemplating making a witch hunter character* (<- there, I did it too - let the stones fly! )

[nitefyre]

I write fantasy (not hero-quest or sword-and-sorcery type stuff) and science fiction. I'll IM you to keep from hijacking the thread.

Be sure to check this out:
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6397&start=0

[Surly]

I'm not sure I'm on the same page with you there. You seem (to me) to be talking about a simulator for our (real life) society, not a society simulator.

That is exactly the opposite of the point I was making... I believe that because of the 'society simulator' tag, those societies that do appear are in no way natural. I believe that Cantr should in no way be seen as a simulator for society, western or otherwise, but rather as a tool for individual characters. By defining a 'society simulator', you effectively restrict Cantr to western social structures, where I believe there should be an open platform for individuals to pursue their own interests, regardless of a social background.

[Torch]

Be sure to check this out:
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6397&start=0

Oooooh, thanks! I'll have to see if I can come up with something after my characters are a bit more developed. I've already got a couple ideas though...

[Pie]

WHY CANT YOU ALL JUST GET ALONG WITHOUT ME COMING TO SOMEONES AID IN A DEBAIT!!!!





What i just said ther is fundementalley tru...if you can interprit me right. The frase 'Sociaty simulator' Means that cantr is a place that dosent revolv around skills, or attack levle, and that Cantr revolves around ROLE PLAYING.

If a town has good role players, that means that there is going to be hate crimes, tyrants in power, and such(Wich is hapening, in some places) such things as such that are different frome ANY OTHER SOCIATY IRL, and that is what cantr is about, Its about creating NEW SOCIATYS THREW the ART OF ROLLPLAYING!!!!

And the reson people base their rolplaying on real life is, that somtimes, people don't know what is hapening in cantr, so they base Cahtr of of Real life. These can very frome the 'Compleatly newb' static to the 'First class citizen' Class, they base cantr of of real life for 2 reasons.

1) It's a HECK LOT EASYER THAN CANTR.

2) It is apropriat to do this in this civilized town.

So far, we have alot of 1s, and just a few 2s.