Use of dung.

[SekoETC]

Why can't it be that dung left on the ground would change into dried dung after a while? It would be cool since you couldn't claim ownership over it, it would be gathered by the swift, unless there was a law against picking up dung.

[Agar]

Double check the menus and your twiners. You should be able to make string now, opening up the drying rack and whatever was being hampered by that snafu.

As for dung on the drying rack, that must have been a rumor that got out onto the wiki. It was thrown out as an option somewhere, but the final solution is still coming -- soon I hope! Patience, patience, this all affects my characters too!

P.S./FYI: To convert a resource to a resource requires you have to have a machine with current programming. Look at every other resource (not a tool or semi-finished good, etc from the build menu) you can make and you should see this is true.

If you read carfully there, you can see that those drying racks are still as patently useless as before.

I can accept that a machine is needed to dry dung because of the limitations of the game. Whatever machine gets made, I would suggest at least two versions, wood and stone, and perhaps something else that's common in most areas, large bones. That way it's widely available. Whatever the machine(s) take, it shouldn't take damn much of it, becuase this is supposed to be an inefficent fuel and dung dries naturally on the ground IRL.

And I know that we can't just leave it outside, as resources ouside disappear, and dung dissapears at a rumored very fast rate. Whatever machine gets made, it should be made outside, as fresh air and sunlight dry things nicely.

[Lumin]

Some kind of rack, made with bones and tied together with hide.

No wood. If you've got access to wood you don't need dung anyway.

It's also a little silly that you need someone to spend precious time tending the dung in order for it to dry, but I guess it can't be avoided. (Drying meat is understandable because I can imagine you're keeping flies away or whatever, but in the case of dung who cares? Let nature take its course.)

[formerly known as hf]

then why not skip the whole 'dung must be dried' thing?

if dung is to be introduced as a cheap fuel source (a good addition) don't make it complicated
no need to add in an extra, time wasting process - just make the requirements for fuel 'dung' - and use a bit of imagination that you've picked up some dried dung

and when you use it as fertilliser for farms / gardens, then the 'dung' is fresh dung...

[EchoMan]

Cheap fuel source for what? If you don't have wood you don't have a spit or oven or .. pretty much anything at all. No wood = nothing but neanderthal, and I do hope RD fixes up the woodless island with some right away.

[Sho]

Possible implementation of the idea that dung left on the ground should dry:
Build on the resource rotting code to make it possible for rotted resources to transform into others - I don't think this should be too hard to do. Then make it so fresh dung on the ground "rots" into dried dung. Also possible to have intermediate steps, such as "partially dry dung."

[Lumin]

Cheap fuel source for what? If you don't have wood you don't have a spit or oven or .. pretty much anything at all. No wood = nothing but neanderthal, and I do hope RD fixes up the woodless island with some right away.

Good point. It's be nice if you could at least dig a firepit without a shovel. Heck, Neanderthals could do it.

How about a drying rack out of bones and hide too? About as efficient as a spit, but at least it'd be something.

Once deterioration for machinery is in place, maybe we could even construct a 'campfire' out of nothing but a little wood or dung. It would be quick to build (few hours), but require more wood and dung to actually be used, and disappear in about three days.

[T-shirt]

I like the idea to change 'fresh dung' to 'dung'. No need to force people to process it first.

Wood does not need to be dried before it can be burned either, while to fire an oven, you need to have dry wood, not freshly chopped wood. There's no wood drying proces, so why should there be dung drying projects?

[Agar]

P.S./FYI: To convert a resource to a resource requires you have to have a machine with current programming. Look at every other resource (not a tool or semi-finished good, etc from the build menu) you can make and you should see this is true.

The dung drying project is a requirement of the current code available to make the dung from "fresh" into something usable. If it needs to be changed, then this has to be done. Resources Dept can't do anything otherwise.

then why not skip the whole 'dung must be dried' thing?

Well, that just makes you want to slap yourself in the forehead. Sounds like a great plan to me. Whichever dept. needs to can convert all the "fresh" dung in to just plain "dung" and add a project to cooking. Yay, the dung is done.

Cheap fuel source for what? If you don't have wood you don't have a spit or oven or .. pretty much anything at all. No wood = nothing but neanderthal, and I do hope RD fixes up the woodless island with some right away.

Best point so far. Unless we can get a new cooking machine "earthen pit" that can be cleared away with bare hands, what are we cooking on? Maybe a new tool "Bone Spade" or some such thing to let us dig something without the fancy iron shovels could be used to make simple, primitive cooking places to start letting everyone cook, since that seems to be then end of the food changes.

[Russell of Los Angeles]

Dung is among other things (like newspawn clothing) not worth mentioning. Rather than adding detailed additions to the base of the economy, let's just simplify and do away with it altogether.

We don't want to handle the defecation or urination of characters. Nor do we have them drink water (though perhaps that'd be something to implement in the future). So let's just assume that the very minimal things needed are readily available in all regions: drinking water, urine, feces, sticks, dirt, pebbles, dried grass or leaves, mud, etc. These byproducts of the natural world should be plentiful enough for the characters cooking needs. I don't care to simulate the trade or gathering of them.

[Confutus]

People can kill animals all over the place to get meat, but most places, it's inedible. They can't cook it because that takes wood; and they can't build drying racks to dry it, because that takes both wood and string. Dried dung as a universal substitute fuel makes some sense. Small amounts of wood more commonly available also makes sense, but that's another thread.
Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what is or isn't changed.

[Russell of Los Angeles]

People can kill animals all over the place to get meat, but most places, it's inedible. They can't cook it because that takes wood; and they can't build drying racks to dry it, because that takes both wood and string. Dried dung as a universal substitute fuel makes some sense. Small amounts of wood more commonly available also makes sense, but that's another thread.
Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what is or isn't changed.

What I'm suggesting is that people can do basic cooking without any specific resource, be it dung, wood, grass, leaves. The simplist cooking could just be the heating of raw vegetables or meat on the ground with a few rocks or sticks or dried dung or something. We just won't mention the details.

The Cantr world leaves out a lot of details already. We don't need to have a lot of basic resources, we just want the production capabilities that the small things would naturally provide. Let's just use our imaginations and skip the details.

To compensate for cooking with unnamed resources, it could just be a slow process. So, the project itself could be assumed to include the gathering of a little bit of fuel.


Edit:
Additionally, consider how the note writing is simplified. Wouldn't it be bothersome if characters had to gather resources and produce paper and writing instruments? And surely, the technology for cooking is even simpler than writing. So just let characters "cook" without needing any specific fuel. Maybe call it "simple cooking". Baking, grilling, stir-fry, etc, could all be other kinds of more advanced cooking that could require a specifc fuel, like some grams of wood or propane, as well as more advanced tools and machines. And at the more advanced level, dung will be unsuitable or obsolete.

So please, like newspawn clothing and writing instruments, let's just not mention the dung.

[Lumin]

Is it just that you're grossed out by it or what?

I wish we could go ahead and get rid of the 'fresh' label, but other than that, I don't see anything "icky" about manure. Besides it's use as fertilizer (which Cantr hasn't implemented so far but hopefully eventually will) people used to cook with it all the time, and still do in some parts of the world.

It's not like it stinks or anything like that, it's really just plant material and after it sits in a pasture a little while it dries and gets trampled down and before long becomes indistinguishable from dirt.

I think it's great that we have it in Cantr, and I only hope we'll be able to use it soon. Not everyone has access to forests, and even if you do, there are so many other valuable things you can use wood for, it's a shame to have to waste so much of it on cooking.

[Russell of Los Angeles]

Is it just that you're grossed out by it or what?

Besides it's use as fertilizer (which Cantr hasn't implemented so far but hopefully eventually will) people used to cook with it all the time, and still do in some parts of the world.

I think it's great that we have it in Cantr, and I only hope we'll be able to use it soon. Not everyone has access to forests, and even if you do, there are so many other valuable things you can use wood for, it's a shame to have to waste so much of it on cooking.

I do think it has some small impact on the overall asthetic of the game, but that's not my point.

My point is that dung is a unnecessary complication and a poor solution to provide for simple cooking. There is a more elegant solution that allows for the use dried grass, small bits of wood, dried leaves, and yes, even dung, for simple cooking. Let's assume dung is used for fertilizer too. That's great. But Cantr is a long way from accurately simulating agriculture.

So I think the solution I proposed above would make it easier for the programming department to implement simple cooking, and therefore easier for characters to cook raw food. And isn't that the point of dung?

[Thetaris]

Look, I guess it's just simply for diversity in the game.