The (relative) dangers of marijuana

[Racetyme]

You guys sure they didn't take anything else but acid? Frankly most people who drop acid did some other heavy shit on their way up.

[Stan]

Nah, I'm not sure. But he surely has "holes" in his brain. Heck, he could have been nuts before he ever took drugs.

[formerly known as hf]

LSD has exactly zero addictive effects

anything that produces a 'high' - wether it be LSD, crack, skunk, weed, alcohol, sex, even sugar or fat (we all know and can certainly see the addicts for sugar / salt / fat - just look at the popularity of McD's) can be addictive - addiction is as much psychological as it is physiological - hence, a high becomes something you want again - it's a natural reaction - hence anything that feels good can become addictive.
This is well known to anyone who has studied addiction - it's the fundamentals of what addiction is to most people - the desire to have more of something that feels good

As for the no health problems and the research?

It has, as I have pointed out before, long been known that simply being addicted to seomthing, anything, brings with it direct and many indirect mental health problems - addiction is not a healthy state of mind - and LSD, as with anything that produces a high, can be addictive.

I'm gonna quote here:

A close temporal correlation between symptoms of psychosis and substance abuse was established for amphetamines (including ecstasy), LSD and excessive abuse of cannabis.

it is suggested by a recurrent observation in addictive medicine practice, that is : alcohol, cannabis, ketamine, LSD, opiates, PCP, all these substances can induce dissociative states (depersonalization, derealization, etc.).

That's not to deny that studies have suggested the possibilities of the use of LSD as a psycholgical therapeutic drug - but it certainly goes against any suggestion that LSD is not addictive - and that to suggest that something that can be addictive does not have linked health problems goes against what is some of the fundamental udnerstandings of addiction and psychological health...

[Racetyme]

Your right. However, I am talking about a different kind of addiction, such as tobacco products. They are so closely linked I am sure they are almost indistinguishable once you are in the grasp, but the fact remains, there is no addictive side to acid, like there is to other drugs, like nicotine.

[Dee]

I don't know, it's just sick. Drugs suck! I am positive they are not good for your health, no matter what some people would say!

You're positive? So you have maybe something like... proof or evidence to show your point?
Define drugs? So, you wouldn't take a tylenol if you had a headache?
If you get cancer, you're just going to tough it out? No drugs for you?

Nick, of course I am not talking about THOSE drugs!!

Those are things we need in life, they are prescribed by doctors. But things like weed and marijuana? Why? Why do you smoke them? Why do you even smoke cigarettes? Just for the fun of it? At the expense of your own life? Don't you agree with me that it IS sick?

[Racetyme]

Dee, I don't personally do it, but I can certainly see the attraction. However, cigarrete smoking is not a rational choice. You get no high, and you are still hurting your body. I can see no reason to make that decision. Other drugs, however, certainly do give you a high, so maybe some people see that as being worth a short loss of life expectancy.

[formerly known as hf]

the therapuetic effects of marijuana has long been known - it can be an effective pain reliever (and a natural one)

morphine has long been used by doctors.

The prescribed drugs \ recreational drugs split has a lot of grey areas
Some prescribed drugs are very dangerous - especially pain killers

[AoM]

The link between psychology and physiology is strong. LSD is less addictive than other harmful drugs because it doesn't activate the dopeminergic pathway (part of the body's "reward" pathway) as strongly as other drugs do. This is reflected in LSD's trip not necessarily producing a feeling of euphoria, rather sometimes, it can produce confusing and even shocking or terrorizing feelings, ones that can actually scare someone away from the drug.

Morphine and other pain killers do affect the dopeminergic pathway and are therefore much more likely to cause withdrawal symptoms...leading to a physiological need for the drug again... ergo: addiction.

Nicotine is addictive in the way it affects nicotinic receptors at the neuro-muscular junctions (where the nerves in the periphery meet and send messages to the muscle). Long story short, the nicotine tricks the cell into thinking that it is a natural signal from the body, and causes the cell to alter how many receptors it puts out. So when the nicotine is gone, the body starts to get agitated because its not getting enough stimulation... and you'll need another cigarette to calm down and focus... hence, it is a negative reinforcement... and leads to an addiction.

I can't quite grasp it off the top of my head, but I think there was one good effect that nicotine from smoking had... but the negative far outweighs the positive, so it doesn't really matter.

[Dee]

Long story short, the nicotine tricks the cell into thinking that it is a natural signal from the body, and causes the cell to alter how many receptors it puts out. So when the nicotine is gone, the body starts to get agitated because its not getting enough stimulation... and you'll need another cigarette to calm down and focus... hence, it is a negative reinforcement... and leads to an addiction.

I think that's the case with all the drugs, not just nicotine... When a person takes too much of a drug, the brain will perceive it as a natural signal.

[saztronic]

I used to smoke pot. A lot of it. Every day. For years. During college, I had a great time with it, and sometimes after. It was relatively harmless, almost completely so.

I have a lot of friends who started to use marijuana a lot earlier in life than I did, though, and it affected them adversely. I noticed -- and though I have nothing scientific that shows this, nor would I believe it to be true in every case, even though it was eventually borne out in my own personal experience -- that these friends seemed almost "frozen in time" mentally and emotionally. They had ceased to progress, or mature, along a "normal" timeline. I think this happens to a lot of people who begin using in their teens, especially. So much is happening with the brain developmentally between, say 14 and 22, and using pot every day seemed to mess with that development.

Ultimately, after using pot for 9 years, I began having anxiety problems -- acute anxiety attacks that were pretty debilitating. None worse than when I was using pot, and if I had an attack then I became pretty convinced that I was on the verge of death. So I stopped. Now, I have an addictive personality. Also used to smoke, and drink too much. Maybe I would have developed the anxiety problem anyway. But I think the amount and frequency of pot usage had a lot to do with it, in my case.

The problem is, that due to government paranoia, there are just no reliable studies out there about marijuana's long-term psychological and physical effects. Some data, yes, and a lot of anecdotal information. But nothing that in the aggregate we can point to and say, "Use pot every day for 7 years and you have a 70% chance of this happening," or "Pot usage is correlated with apathy or frozen adolescence" or anything like that, with any degree of certainty.

A lot of people I know continue to use pot, and I love them dearly, and I think for them it's not a problem. Good for them. But then, for a lot of people, alcohol isn't a problem either. My wife can drink whenever she wants, but never drinks too much, and never makes it a habit. Not so with me. Not so with a lot of marijuana users.

So I think it should be legal, not because it's just not a problem, but so that we can finally study it properly, and find out under what circumstances it can create problems, of what kind, and what can be done to mitigate those problems.

For example, maybe reformed pot addicts have a tendency to write really, really long posts that no one wants to read to the end of.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

The problem is, that due to government paranoia, there are just no reliable studies out there about marijuana's long-term psychological and physical effects. Some data, yes, and a lot of anecdotal information. But nothing that in the aggregate we can point to and say, "Use pot every day for 7 years and you have a 70% chance of this happening," or "Pot usage is correlated with apathy or frozen adolescence" or anything like that, with any degree of certainty.

Another reason why it's this way is not just the government, but ethics as well. The only real way to get as close to true results as you can is to have a controlled study. The most controlled study you could have is taking a group of people from when they were very young and raising them all the same and then making them use whatever drug (nicotine or pot or alcohol or whatever) at whatever age you choose for however many years to get the results of how bad or not bad it is for people over an extended period of time. That's hardly ethical, isn't it?

[Stan]

Not to mention the fact that the government is comprised of and representative of the people and most people don't want pot or any other elicit drug legalized. At least in the states

*edited to add last sentence

[Racetyme]

I don't think your right on that one Stan. I feel a poll coming on. If nothing else, I don't think it will be a strong majority against legalization.

LSD does not create this negativ reinforcement effect, your body is in fact what kicks off the trip, all of the drug itself is long gone out of your system by the time your trip ends, it stimulates your brain to react in a way that it was already capable of reacting, much like a waking dream.

[Stan]

I don't think this forum represents a good cross section of America or of mainstream world views. I believe if a a majority agreed with doing it, it would get done.

[formerly known as hf]

it got done(ish) in the UK

weed is now class 'C' - which means you can't be arrested for possession, unless it's with intent to supply.

For the left wing, it was seen as one step towrds legalisation. For the right wing it was labelled as being a way of saving police time, rather than wasting it on 'wasters'