A Small Bit of Cantr Ethics

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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nitefyre
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Postby nitefyre » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:40 pm

hallucinatingfarmer wrote:In terms of using (real-life) (C) material in-game - I'm sure there's a note somewhere to say that that's forbidden?



I don't think there is. I'd highly suggest making that part of the terms and agreements that you "agree" to when you join.

Something along the lines of "I will not use copyrighted material from out of game sources in game, as my own. Anything that I intend to use for my character in game, will be my own material." That would hopefully stop the OOC images of celebrities as characters that were a pain at one time.
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Postby ephiroll » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:51 pm

I thought something similar, or implying, a restriction on OOC info and therefore any "props" was already stated somewhere.
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Postby nitefyre » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:53 pm

Actually, I would go so far as to suggest that Cantr should have the rights to republish the material in the Zine, Chronicles of Cantr, or any Cantr Publication once it's in the game.
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Postby Racetyme » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:57 pm

Not in the chronicles of cantr. The way I understand that it is going to be a published book, distributed around the world. Even if only a few thousand copies are sold, it is wrong to publish someone's work without their permission in rl.
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Postby nitefyre » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:12 pm

A publication is a publication, electronic or printed.
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Postby Racetyme » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:36 pm

I know, but a printed publication is much more of a big deal. However, unless you put something in that terms of agreement page when people first sign up, it is definitely unethical to publish their work.
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Postby ephiroll » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:56 pm

Well, I don't think puting any such statement in the terms of agreement is a good idea, not now not ever.

And technically, it doesn't matter how something in question is published, there's no such thing as only 'slightly' breaking a copyright law, it either is or isn't.
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Postby nitefyre » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:08 pm

Well, I don't think puting any such statement in the terms of agreement is a good idea, not now not ever.

And technically, it doesn't matter how something in question is published, there's no such thing as only 'slightly' breaking a copyright law, it either is or isn't.


That's the reason I think such a disclaimer would be necessary. I mean, if someone applied their material to Cantr and had it copied through out the game by another character, it could raise several things that Cantr could be liable for, as the medium of such a process.

At the very least, some sort of disclaimer should be on the terms and agreements, whereby the creator takes responsibility for what they submit IC and that it can be republished, at some level in game, if not out of it.

After all, MacDonalds or whatever company it was, assumed that it was known coffee was hot and could burn you.
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Postby Jos Elkink » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:20 pm

Ah, wait, we're not talking about in-game publications used in-game by other chars without reference (which is definitely allowed), but about OOC publications used IC or vice versa? In that case, yes, I can see how we might need some regulations concerning copyright ...
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Postby Sho » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:29 pm

We were talking about in-game publications, but decided that was a nonissue and got sidetracked instead, I think.
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Postby ephiroll » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:50 pm

I'm confused myself now :?

I'm saying that putting a disclaimer indicating that Cantr staff can use in game materials for whatever they want is a bad idea.

Any in game writings not done for play, ie, written by the 'char' or that are copied from somewhere else should just be considered a CR breach and dealt with accordingly.

Someone stealing a piece and using it elsewhere as their own is between the people invovled. As long as Jos and no other Cantr staff 'support' the practice (such as using their position to get to specific peices in the game, or using such position to defend the theft) no case would ever stand up against them.

A line could be added to this effect somewhere, but it's basically a nonissue.
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Postby formerly known as hf » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:13 pm

Using RL material in game is a CR breach - so it's covered by the current rules anyway -
I'm not good with law - if someone copied (real life) copywrited material into Cantr - would that player be liable, or would cantr.net be liable for hosting an illegal publication of something copywrited?

As for staff having the right to publish anything player-created that appears in Cantr - I don't think that's a good idea. They are personal works, and I would feel very uneasy about publishing something without a player's permission.
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Postby T.L.H.E. » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:42 am

Jos Elkink wrote:
The Industriallist wrote:I seriously hope no one is proposing that RL copyright laws should have any standing of any kind in cantr? For obvious CR and legal reasons you shouldn't be putting in anything not your own creation, but if it gets ripped off within cantr no OOC response could possibly be warrented.


Exactly. What this thread is doing is discussing what should be a policy in the game, but in-game policies should be discussed in-game! ... If Quillanoi wants to adopt a law on plagiarism, that's fine, but there is no Cantr-wide rule in this context.


Plagarism and copyright laws are really the last thing I intended to make this thread about... in fact... my really question seems to have been skimmed over entierly, not that I made it too clear.

Basically, I have been mapping a new land... visually you know... and I came across another visual map and its dead creator... Now I figure that it's perfectly fair game to copy the map into my map, but I wanted to know if anyone else felt very differently? Moreover, for various in game reasons, I won't be crediting the original creator... and I think I might have every map of his in existence... so... if this had been done with your work, visual mapping actually being a bit more work than textual, would you be righteously pissed off OOC?

I guess a bit of copyright law might come in here, but again, it's really not what I intended the thread to focus on.
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Postby ephiroll » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:41 am

hallucinatingfarmer wrote: if someone copied (real life) copywrited material into Cantr - would that player be liable, or would cantr.net be liable for hosting an illegal publication of something copywrited?


No, Cantr couldn't be held liable for it, unless, Jos and staff refused to remove the offending piece from the game when the original creator came calling or took any other action that added to or perpetuated the violation.

Most violations are solved between the author and the person ripping them off because most are commited by people who aren't doing it out of malice, but because of ignorance of the law. A simple explaination and apology normally solves the problem. Most of the cases that go any farther involve large companies, such as when Disney stole the concept and chars for "Finding Nemo" and even more recently, the controversy that surrounded "Kingdom of Heaven" when it was released. Of those, almost all are settled out of court with a fat check because the company knows they messed up. "Finding Nemo" is an excellent example of such a major up. Disney didn't even change the names of many of the minor characters, much less a myrid of other details such as char color and even the storyline when they ripped it off from a childern's book by a French author (can't remember his name).

@TLHE:

Your question would depend on the player, some of us, like me, wouldn't give a damn, others, however, could look to mount your head on the wall. I would say, either contact the player, or use it and make it unrecognizable as coming from the source it came from.
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Postby formerly known as hf » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:04 am

TLHE>
It's up to the character - their choice.
If someone gets pissed OOC about someone ripping their (character's) work off IG - that's nothing for you to worry about...

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