You should allow people to invent in Cantr

[wichita]

So far as Cantr not having Science, I have a guy wandering aroound Xiria trying to work out equations for how things work.

Excellent. If I had time to start another character I would make a scientist and start a University. It is good to know there are still a few out there that are trying to do this.

[Just A Bill]

One possible implementation of inventions and ideas spreading might look like this. When a new item (weapon, tool, vehicle ect) is to be added to the game, instead of it simply being added to everyones build menu, a special note is given to one or more characters. The note is titled "Plans for NewItemName". This note can be copied, dropped, picked up, just like any other notes. When a character gets a note, a flag is set in that character data saying that he/she knows how to build the new device and it will from that point on appear in his/her build menu.

That character can share his idea with others via copying the note and giving it to others, or just leave it on the ground for anyone to pick up.

I am not big on html, but I think there is some way to hide information in one of the tags (meta data tags?) as to what elements of the build menu should be enabled. Hopefully by hiding the actual information that the program uses can't be cut and pasted outside of the normal cantr copy note functionallity.

The cantr program itself would need new flags on each characters data to indicate which inventions the character knows, as well as code in the recieving note/picking up note to check the hidden html and set the flags as needed. The build menu screen would need to be modified to check the appropriate flags before displaying some of the build menu choices...

This would allow cantrarians to spread ideas in a way similar to the way they spread in real life, ie one person tells another. The disadvantage to this would be that some ideas would end up sitting around for quite a while if the character doesn't know what to do with it and ignores it...

[kroner]

the problem with that system is that inventing becomes a completely random process, which is unrealistic (and i think realism is the goal of implementing invention). the concept of an MRI machine didn't just pop up one day in the mind of a 37 year old plumber in carson city, nevada who spent his spare time fishing. invention takes research and an intimate understanding of the subject matter.

[wichita]

Oh come on Kroner. They only awarded the Nobel prize to two guys for developing it. It could have just sprung up on anybody!

[Ahoyhoy]

Ok how about this, you can have different fields to invent. Like say you want to have a better weapon, you could research into weaponry. Just a Bill's idea is basically what I was thinking. When a new item is implemented into the game, instead of it instantly appearing, someone has to research it, and then they can spread the idea to others.

But I mean if you want to have limited resources in the game, you have to give someone the option to do something else for value. Right now people are riding on past resources that have been gathered. But give it a few months and resources will start to be scarce. Less buildings, vehicle, and other objects shall be constructed, less manufacturing jobs will be around, and less people will be able to gather resources so basically...many people will have nothing to do in the game.

[Augery]

This sounds like use of OOC knowledge to me, people arn't going to be researching all the time. But the second something is moved to implemented, everyone will decide to research it at once.

[wulf]

Assuming "invention" could be bolted into the game, here's a hypothetical idea for how it could work.

Firstly, "inventing" would be a skill - some people would be good at it, some people would be bad at it and you would improve with practise.

To invent things, you'd put time into an inventing product. You can spend as long as you want and the direct result would be nothing tangible. All you'd get is a bonus added to an invisible HOURS_INVENTING attribute.

However, when the time comes for new items, buildings and processes to be added to the game, they wouldn't just appear for everyone in every location. Instead, the new item would be assigned a certain number of inventing hours along with the list of materials required - not much time for developing a new wooden thing to hit people with but lots of time for developing, say, flight or long distance communications. A filter would then be run to identify all the characters with enough credit on their HOURS_INVENTING attribute and with suitable resources and tools in their inventory (you're unlikely to invent a new engine if all you've got to work with is wood and stone).

From that shortlist, a character would be randomly picked - the inventing skill would act as a weighting factor here, having a more profound effect on the more complex items. That character would then be able to build whatever the new thing is.

In order to spread the knowledge around, there could perhaps be a "sharing" project. In addition, books could be written - virtual objects that, given a certain amount of time invested in reading them, convey the knowledge of creating the new object. A third transmission method would acquiring an artifact and spending time (again using the inventing skill) to reverse engineer it. Finally, the same idea might occur to other inventors in other places - a subconcious universal meme spreading knowledge even when the first inventor tries to keep the idea to himself.

Historically, new ideas have made a huge difference. For example, think of how stone age civilisations gave way to bronze age civilisations, which in turn gave way to those who'd stumbled across even better, iron-age technology.

Wulf

[Antichrist_Online]

I prefere the alternate idea of improving exsisting devices by research. I posted about it a while back.

[wulf]

I prefere the alternate idea of improving exsisting devices by research. I posted about it a while back.

I think that would also be good. Again, taking the precedent of historical situations, there's a lot more to things like swords than just what they're made out of. Some of that is cosmetic but superior weaponry has often made the difference in a clash of two civilisations and you can certainly identify them as coming from particular cultures.

It wouldn't all have to be military, either. Some places have developed very effective farming systems giving much greater yields.

I think that could fit in with the idea of inventing new things (indeed, most inventions are just improvements on what's gone before rather than immediately being seen as a way of doing things never dreamt of before).

Wulf

[Ahoyhoy]

I really don't care how the invention system becomes implemented. I just gave the idea, you all can figure out the kinks if you think it's good. I just want people to be able to do something if they can't gather resources or make/repair something and there's no work available. Also it would be pretty crazy seeing tanks roll up onto a continent in the far future and battle people on horseback who haven't researched that stuff yet....

[Nick]

Good idea, in theory, but IMO can never be properly implemented.

edit: holds on for the ride to the rejected forum

[Sho]

Yeah. There have been a lot of suggestions for a more realistic system for technology (like mine! yay!), but I don't think any have ever gotten anywhere.

[Ahoyhoy]

Well it hasn't been moved to the rejected ideas forum just yet and hasn't been locked so I guess this idea is somewhat feasible.

[Pie]

Alrighty.. sice i know that i will have my other post on this subject blocked by H.F, i will just copy past the most inportant parts of that last post.

Well, lets say we go into the Wepons place, and right under Swords, it has a button, Invint, so, I INVINT A NUKE!! but of cours it has to go past many of the resourse department, so I get only half of my plutonium back.

It could be like this "Invinting A Nuke Project" or somthing like that.

this right here, could caws diversity within the many islands we have, and create different wepons, i mean, wouldent it be suprising if some pirat walks in with a Tomy gun in his hands, and he mows down everyone?

so.. when you click on this button.. a mesage is sent to one of the recourse department people.. and they get to say if it is aceptable.. or if it is not aceptable... and of course.. A NEW SKILL!!! the hyer the skill.. the better your invintion will be. The skill thing can wait... but INVINTION CAN'T!!!!

[Sho]

Sounds like the current system (post on forums, wait for idea to be shot down), except without a way of getting the information to the players.