Securities, bonds, stocks, banknotes, bills

[PRUT]

We were talking about making coins, but in modern societies, coins are not as efficient as banknotes and other securities.

Making special note or something similar (for all papers mentioned in the title) will boost economy and finish barter exchange. Value of all those securities would be based on trust like in real world

This things should be very hard to copy by unauthorised users and cheap to make even if matrix (die) would be more expensive. Every matrix (die) should be unique (like keys) but able to copy with a special tool or machinery.

What do you thing?

[SekoETC]

Notes there are now can be used as documents... be that they can be endlessly copied and edited if not set uneditable... but you can simulate many things with them. It would be cool if there were some uncopiable notes but then people can go to the source code and copy it there. Ok, special notes that need a machine to make... hmm. Yes, it might be useful.

Hmm, but I think it would be cool if you could press a form or something and add more things to it by hand but if someone copied it on ordinary paper, it wouldn't have the stamps or background image or what ever it uses for recognition.

[kinvoya]

Clearly we need machines to make special document paper and a printing press. I guess it would only be able to print one document, though, unless you could make separate trays with different text templates and choose which one to use in the printer.

[Sho]

What would be the difference between this proposed banknote system and the implemented coinage system? Nobody uses coins, as far as I know; why would people use this?

[Surly]

Bank notes were only introduced as they were lighter than coins, and also to enable trading in large amounts without large amounts of coinage.

Not sure there is any need for this... and if there is, couldn't you just use a seal?

[PRUT]

But if you are short of raw materials to produce coins or seals?

Banknotes would be a best solution. Look around ... there are everywhere of many kinds. How can you say

Not sure there is any need for this...

?

Why they are everywhere? Because they are only worthless papers, which only value is trust in their value. This is the basement of modern economy.

I'm still sure, that will boost economy, because not only raw materials are important, more importanat are organisation and system of trade.
If we don't implement this or something similar, we would be only dreaming of economizing Cantr, exchanging tool for tool, or material for material.

[Sho]

If you don't have the materials to make a coin press, well, that's just too bad. Nobody has proposed the creation of wooden motored vehicles just because you might not have steel.

We have coins. Coins in their current implementation are worthless - you can't melt them down to get the metal back. Nobody uses them, not because they're too heavy or too hard to make, but because there is no demand in any current Cantrian society for them.

A real-life need does not necessarily translate into a need in Cantr.

[rklenseth]

Worth is defined by society and the people who live in it. Nothing else defines wealth.

Thus coins will only be worth something if deemed so by society.

Take out a dollar bill (or whatever currency you have in your pocket). All it is is paper or metal. Nothing more but to you it has value. It means something.

[Sho]

Right, of course. My point is that as far as that is concerned, banknotes are no different from coins.

[rklenseth]

I wasn't actually replying to your post, Sho. Just to the discussion in general.

[cpkangaroo]

The first suggestion I made (back in the 200s) was the ability to sign notes. Simply adding the option to sign a note (like sealing an envelope) would allow for the creation of currency, binding contracts, etc. Thumbs up from me.

[PRUT]

The first suggestion I made (back in the 200s) was the ability to sign notes. Simply adding the option to sign a note (like sealing an envelope) would allow for the creation of currency, binding contracts, etc. Thumbs up from me.

But sealing an evelope is lack, because when you change your name, you can copy every seal you want. It easy you want to copy envelope sealed by X, change the name to X, seal the envelope and voila!

[PRUT]

I think problem with coins is because nobody wants to waste resources to produce coins (steel or others). Everyone has better idea to use steel.

Money should be worthless!! Ans as easy to produce as notes - then they will work.

Inplementing securities will also help in developing societies with modern finance, speculation, ekonomical wars or many different effects which are undiscovered yet. This will end an economy based just on avaible resources.

[theguy]

there is defenitly no point for coins just because we can dig into our pockets for them does not mean cantrs should notes are just coins worth more



so has this disscion came to an end nobody can think of a use for coins or notes

[Jos Elkink]

Banknotes will not suddenly end barter trade. The reason people don't use the coins is not so much that they need resources, but that they can't convince other people that the coin is really worth something. A pity, but alas, that's how it works in Cantr now. A note won't change that.

But well, I wrote a long article on this for the next Webzine, so read that before continuing the discussion ...