Shield change

[Nixit]

Well... let's see. If someone can do about 60% on their first hit at 100% strength, then there is 15% tiredness added on. Yep. They could definitely kill them in two hits. And they wouldn't even have to full power it the second time. That is, of course, if they don't have a shield...

[Talapus]

What you don't realize is that if the character in question has a locked building with a good bed inside, then they can get off 8 full power shots on the same person every day, and probably about 14-16 very powerful shots. This would mean that a good attacker with a good weapon would be able to kill 5 or 6 unarmed people every day without any trouble (probably only 2 or 3 if they have iron shields, but that is still a huge number). And if you have ever tried to break down a door, you would see that that person would be able to keep killing people like this for a long time (especially if they focused on the people with crowbars). It is better to be on the safe side, so any idea like this should start slow be adjusted until it is fair. I like change as long as it is reasonable, and if these changes were made as they are being proposed, I have at least one character that could singlehandedly kill everyone in a very large town.

[Surly]

This change by itself would be fine.

But combined without the combat skill changes, I don't think this is good at all.

[julie2]

Somebody has to say it:

When, oh when, is healing going to be made faster and easier? If it takes you years to gather sufficient healing food to recover from significant damage (as it does) any system that serves to increase damage has got to be bad

[Slowness_Incarnate]

I knew it. I knew it! I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting. Now, there is. See! I have a right to say, I told you so!

[The Sociologist]

I`d like to announce another change to gameplay. All shield protection values have been lowered. This is in hopes to aid balancing the violence system in game, which has hardly been used in the recent past due to a combination of tiredness, and object deteroriation.

I'm sorry, but this is yet more idiocy. We have pointed out time and time again to you bunch that the problem with conflict is due to a combination of the tiredness and the skills systems, not anything to do with item deterioration. And lowering shield protection values with the current horrendously wide skill values still in place is quite the wrong thing to do.

When are you guys going to admit that the skills system is the problem?

What the above means is that someone in the lowest skills level who is somewhat tired, can be taken out with just one successful blow each from two attackers skilled in combat and well-armed even if he has an iron shield himself. The reason why I say this, is that the situation was already close to that bad a while back. So now it clearly must be that bad.

Of course I should be crowing about this since I killed off all such especially weak characters of mine a while back and simply refuse to spawn any new ones. But it's bad news for those who trusted Jos and kept such weaklings. Their charries will die very very fast now.

PS. I have and always will oppose relaxing the one-hit-per-day rule. It is not a solution either. The only solution is to admit when you're wrong and to back out, at least partly, from those changes which caused the problem in the first place: tiredness and skills.

[Lumin]

Now that would be lowered to, what, 7?

I'm talking about alternate ways to make combat viable, besides the change to shields. (Which I'd like to see set back to normal.) So you'd still be saving 12%, if that helps any.

And I'll concede that unlimited attacks may not be the best way to go, (though the exact scenario Talapus describes seems unlikely, as a character would need to be an extremely lucky homicidal maniac who's also played long enough to get a bed and a locked building and a good weapon without anyone realizing he's a homicidal maniac...) but even two hits allowed a day would go a long ways towards balancing out the extreme advantage defenders have right now.

I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting.

Could that be because it's just a bad idea? And I find it troubling that anyone would make a change that effects the game so drastically and then want to keep it a secret from everyone but their own characters...

[Slowness_Incarnate]

Oh I knew it was happening, but I can't say anything because it's Resource Department stuff. I tried to fight against it, but there were way mroe people who wanted this silly idea than those who didn't. It was democratic in a way, the naysayers just lost..heh.

[Lumin]

Well see then, you've been proved right after all. Seems just about everyone is unaminously against it. This is definitely one of those changes where if the players had been asked about it before it happened, all this could have been avoided, provided the 'naysayers' are capable of taking a hint.

[rklenseth]

Seriously, this hasn't been thought through.

Would anyone care to explain how this is possibly good? It makes the weak weaker (next to no ability to block), and the strong stronger (they can damage the weak more).

Yes, it has. The thread in the Resource Department Forums is about 10 pages long on this discussion. I my opinion, we over analyzed it to death.

[rklenseth]

I knew it. I knew it! I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting. Now, there is. See! I have a right to say, I told you so!

People complain and protest about most of the changes we've made. That doesn't validate your argument as to why this shouldn't have been done.

[rklenseth]

I`d like to announce another change to gameplay. All shield protection values have been lowered. This is in hopes to aid balancing the violence system in game, which has hardly been used in the recent past due to a combination of tiredness, and object deteroriation.

I'm sorry, but this is yet more idiocy. We have pointed out time and time again to you bunch that the problem with conflict is due to a combination of the tiredness and the skills systems, not anything to do with item deterioration. And lowering shield protection values with the current horrendously wide skill values still in place is quite the wrong thing to do.

When are you guys going to admit that the skills system is the problem?

What the above means is that someone in the lowest skills level who is somewhat tired, can be taken out with just one successful blow each from two attackers skilled in combat and well-armed even if he has an iron shield himself. The reason why I say this, is that the situation was already close to that bad a while back. So now it clearly must be that bad.

Of course I should be crowing about this since I killed off all such especially weak characters of mine a while back and simply refuse to spawn any new ones. But it's bad news for those who trusted Jos and kept such weaklings. Their charries will die very very fast now.

PS. I have and always will oppose relaxing the one-hit-per-day rule. It is not a solution either. The only solution is to admit when you're wrong and to back out, at least partly, from those changes which caused the problem in the first place: tiredness and skills.

At which then we would be back to the 2 or 3 sabre wielding and iron shield protecting people wiping entire locations of 50 who can do nothing to stop them. That is why tiredness and skills where implemented to counter this problem but it balanced the game out in the other direction so lowering the shield protection will balance it back the other way. It won't be completely balanced but much better than what it was.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

I knew it. I knew it! I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting. Now, there is. See! I have a right to say, I told you so!

People complain and protest about most of the changes we've made. That doesn't validate your argument as to why this shouldn't have been done.

I said before on that the people playing the game should have been notified of a shield change like this before it happened. Another RD member also said the same thing, yet that did not happen. My argument was that it shouldn't have been done, I said why over there too. I didn't have much of a chance with all the people that liked it. So, therefore it was worth a shot. There are always protests, but there are some things that it would be nice to know beforehand. Just a little courtesy could have been afforded here. I know it could have been said that we need to "find out in game" about the shield thing, but finding out beforehand would have been better. I'm glad it wasn't left to be found out in game. However, this wasn't enough of a warning for people. Why didn't I personally say anything? I'm not supposed to mention to others what's going on in the RD forum, now am I?

[rklenseth]

I knew it. I knew it! I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting. Now, there is. See! I have a right to say, I told you so!

People complain and protest about most of the changes we've made. That doesn't validate your argument as to why this shouldn't have been done.

I said before on that the people playing the game should have been notified of a shield change like this before it happened. Another RD member also said the same thing, yet that did not happen. My argument was that it shouldn't have been done, I said why over there too. I didn't have much of a chance with all the people that liked it. So, therefore it was worth a shot. There are always protests, but there are some things that it would be nice to know beforehand. Just a little courtesy could have been afforded here. I know it could have been said that we need to "find out in game" about the shield thing, but finding out beforehand would have been better. I'm glad it wasn't left to be found out in game. However, this wasn't enough of a warning for people. Why didn't I personally say anything? I'm not supposed to mention to others what's going on in the RD forum, now am I?

I'm not in charge of the department, slowness, but I thought it was agreed that it would be announced long before it would be implemented.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

I knew it. I knew it! I said before if the people besides the Resource Department knew about this, there would be complaints and protesting. Now, there is. See! I have a right to say, I told you so!

People complain and protest about most of the changes we've made. That doesn't validate your argument as to why this shouldn't have been done.

I said before on that the people playing the game should have been notified of a shield change like this before it happened. Another RD member also said the same thing, yet that did not happen. My argument was that it shouldn't have been done, I said why over there too. I didn't have much of a chance with all the people that liked it. So, therefore it was worth a shot. There are always protests, but there are some things that it would be nice to know beforehand. Just a little courtesy could have been afforded here. I know it could have been said that we need to "find out in game" about the shield thing, but finding out beforehand would have been better. I'm glad it wasn't left to be found out in game. However, this wasn't enough of a warning for people. Why didn't I personally say anything? I'm not supposed to mention to others what's going on in the RD forum, now am I?

I'm not in charge of the department, slowness, but I thought it was agreed that it would be announced long before it would be implemented.

There was a bit of a dodge going on there, think it's unintentional. However, the main directive of what I was trying to say is that EVERYONE that plays is affected by this change. No matter if they're old or new, they're affected in some way. With something of this span, EVERYONE should have known, AND been able to say if they wanted it in the game or not. Not just the few in the Resources Department.