Increase caused tiredness by dragging an alive person

[catpurr]

It's really 2%, I checked, and I can guarantee that it used to be more. Why it was ever changed, I have no idea, but upping it is a valid topic of discussion. As for the original suggestion, I can guarantee rejection.

Spawning from that discussion, as it is a new suggestion.
http://forum.cantr.org/viewtopic.php?t=18012

[theguy]

It should be raised, no doubt about it, by how much not sure. I dont know how the tiredness effects dragging and I would need to do some calculations on how many people so many people could drag in the same timeframe.

[catpurr]

As a rule of thumb I'd say an amount of X people should not be able to drag more than X people in a reasonable timeframe.

[IHaveNoLegs]

For full disclosure here is another relevant thread: http://forum.cantr.org/viewtopic.php?t=18008

My two cents are that the two of you are upset that your characters died and naturally want something to be done about it. It just seems to me that changing the experience for hundreds or thousands of players, and all future players, because a handful of people got butthurt over losing their chars is a losing proposition no matter what. Yes, 2% sounds low but it has been that way for some time apparently and has never been an issue until you two lost your chars.

Also, dragging has many positive in game applications (getting a sleeping char off a vehicle and into a home, catching a thief, dragging people away from such an attack as you've suffered) and hindering those possibilities to prevent what looks like a rare event in Cantr seems like biting off your nose to spite your face.

As a rule of thumb I'd say an amount of X people should not be able to drag more than X people in a reasonable timeframe.

Is this meant as a new suggestion overall or aimed at thatguy for his arbitrary calculations? If its the former please do not start a fourth(!) thread about this one incident. If it's the latter, I have to ask if you know that there are ways to decrease tiredness in game, both instantaneously and over time?

[catpurr]

My two cents are that the two of you are upset that your characters died and naturally want something to be done about it. It just seems to me that changing the experience for hundreds or thousands of players, and all future players, because a handful of people got butthurt over losing their chars is a losing proposition no matter what. Yes, 2% sounds low but it has been that way for some time apparently and has never been an issue until you two lost your chars.

Please stop assuming my motivations and emotions and shouting them around. Yes this gone out of this events, but its not that I'm exactly angry. I just consider it mindboggling that 4 people can drag a group of 24 (or more?) people around within seconds. And this goes generally for hundreds of players therefore a suggestion thread.

Raising tiredness (to a level it was already before?) seems to be senseful thing. About possibilities to instant reduction of tiredness. Okay so lets have them take an insane amount of tea with them... it at least make such a thing more difficult to do.

Also, dragging has many positive in game applications (getting a sleeping char off a vehicle and into a home, catching a thief, dragging people away from such an attack as you've suffered) and hindering those possibilities to prevent what looks like a rare event in Cantr seems like biting off your nose to spite your face.

None of these is uses is considerable affected by raising tiredness of dragging alive people around to sensefull level. Alive people bein psuhes around against their will are throwing around with arms and legs. Its only logical forcing them around should be tiresome.

Is this meant as a new suggestion overall or aimed at thatguy for his arbitrary calculations? If its the former please do not start a fourth(!) thread about this one incident.

Now, this is supposed to the calculations of caused tiredness. And as long each topic is a new topic I consider it even approperiate to make a new thread for a new topic.

[Dudel]

It's really 2%, I checked, and I can guarantee that it used to be more. Why it was ever changed, I have no idea, but upping it is a valid topic of discussion. As for the original suggestion, I can guarantee rejection.

OH HELL YEAH! Up the tiredness to something WAY above 50%. I'm sorry... but the "hords" in Cantr usually ends at about 4 people. 4 people dragging and killing TOWNS... or less, true, which is absolutely RIDICULOUS!

The tiredness total should lessen for each person helping, of course.

Copy-pasted... also, I think 50% is about right even "realistically" (This is where it starts for "weaker then average awkward fighters" I mean)

[SekoETC]

2% is certainly too low, but I'm not sure if the current code allows tiredness to be divided between participants. After all, I think it gives you the tiredness when you start dragging, not when it's a success, so if it gave you 50% tiredness, that tiredness would prevent your success before you ever had a chance.

[Dudel]

2% is certainly too low, but I'm not sure if the current code allows tiredness to be divided between participants. After all, I think it gives you the tiredness when you start dragging, not when it's a success, so if it gave you 50% tiredness, that tiredness would prevent your success before you ever had a chance.

In that case, it wouldn't work.... and should probably stop at something around 15%

[IHaveNoLegs]

Please stop assuming my motivations and emotions and shouting them around. Yes this gone out of this events, but its not that I'm exactly angry. I just consider it mindboggling that 4 people can drag a group of 24 (or more?) people around within seconds. And this goes generally for hundreds of players therefore a suggestion thread.

Please stop changing the events and your supposed reasonings between each thread you post. At first you complain you're upset because of bad RP, then the next thread it's "No no no, this is all about fixing a broken game". The change in numbers is also astounding. First it's three people dragging, then four over a span of an hour, then minutes, and now seconds. Yeah, I'm sure people are buying that this went down in seconds. Then there's the size of the town which you say is 20, then 12 (before you edited your post) and now 24. I'm sorry but I'm not going to believe you about not being upset until you can get your story straight.

Raising tiredness (to a level it was already before?) seems to be senseful thing. About possibilities to instant reduction of tiredness. Okay so lets have them take an insane amount of tea with them... it at least make such a thing more difficult to do.

Or.....let's not. Resources for tea are already scarce in most places I've had chars and I'm assuming in the game in general. This does nothing but cripple the options players have available to them in terms of roleplaying. The frontpage of Cantr says nothing about having to be nice and lawful. If this had happened to me, I think I'd be upset too, but it doesn't make it right to cut off that "dark side" option of gameplay completely.

None of these is uses is considerable affected by raising tiredness of dragging alive people around to sensefull level. Alive people bein psuhes around against their will are throwing around with arms and legs. Its only logical forcing them around should be tiresome.

It's already tiresome. And yea, to YOU it has no adverse effect. But what about when my char has to drag two sleeping chars off a vehicle, then has to chase down a thief but now can't because they are too tired. All because catpurrr had a bad experience that one time? That's just bullshit to me.

I'll stop after this because I think I've made my position clear but everything about this just seems like your enjoyment of the game suffered and now would like those responsible to have their way of playing and enjoyment suffer.

[catpurr]

2% is certainly too low, but I'm not sure if the current code allows tiredness to be divided between participants. After all, I think it gives you the tiredness when you start dragging, not when it's a success, so if it gave you 50% tiredness, that tiredness would prevent your success before you ever had a chance.

I don't think deviding is necessary. I think its fair if one person is strong enough to have the force normally 3 persons would be needed to, than to also be able drag as much as 3 persons could with the same tiredness per person.

So supposing you need in average 2 people to drag someone. Tiredness should be iMHO set that way these 2 are tired after dragging say max. 3 persons.

[catpurr]

Please stop changing the events and your supposed reasonings between each thread you post. At first you complain you're upset because of bad RP, then the next thread it's "No no no, this is all about fixing a broken game". The change in numbers is also astounding. First it's three people dragging, then four over a span of an hour, then minutes, and now seconds. Yeah, I'm sure people are buying that this went down in seconds. Then there's the size of the town which you say is 20, then 12 (before you edited your post) and now 24. I'm sorry but I'm not going to believe you about not being upset until you can get your story straight.

I'm not changing the events. You are just not understanding correctly. First this topic is about generally the capacity X persons should be able to drag others around. Technically it has nothing to do with the events in {town}. So also you are making the connection here, its you who confuses things.

Yes there were 12 people in {town}. Dragged two times. Technically and that was what I was saying, 4 people can currently thus at least drag 24 people into prisons within seconds (supposing they can click as fast). Again I'm speaking here in suggestion technically not about the events in {town}. You are accusing me to make this suggestoin because of that, but I'm not. I'm making it because it only showed there is generally something broken in balance.

Just suppose the amount of tireness gets changed, does it bring our chars back? No. They are dead. point. So stop mouning about this.

Or.....let's not. Resources for tea are already scarce in most places I've had chars and I'm assuming in the game in general. This does nothing but cripple the options players have available to them in terms of roleplaying. The frontpage of Cantr says nothing about having to be nice and lawful. If this had happened to me, I think I'd be upset too, but it doesn't make it right to cut off that "dark side" option of gameplay completely.

Again you are confusing things. Did I say to make ressources more scare for tea? No, I didn't. Read again more accurately what I wrote

It's already tiresome. And yea, to YOU it has no adverse effect. But what about when my char has to drag two sleeping chars off a vehicle, then has to chase down a thief but now can't because they are too tired. All because catpurrr had a bad experience that one time? That's just bullshit to me.

Oh dear, that happens all the time, first drag two sleeping chars of the vehicle and then those thief popping up! .... Well in case yes, you as a single person should definetly not be able to drag more than 3 people around until you rest a little. Even if one of catpurrs newspawns had not to die. (do i have to remember you, it was a newspan! My emotion to it was near zero.)

I'll stop after this because I think I've made my position clear but everything about this just seems like your enjoyment of the game suffered and now would like those responsible to have their way of playing and enjoyment suffer.

No, you are plain and simply wrong.

[Dudel]

Well I'm "captain mechanics" and I do think the 2% is a bit retarded. The game mechanics really shouldn't "allow" for such a drastic thing to happen with such little effort, sorry.

[BZR]

Well I'm "captain mechanics" and I do think the 2% is a bit retarded. The game mechanics really shouldn't "allow" for such a drastic thing to happen with such little effort, sorry.

I agree. The game is too fast, sometimes.

[*Wiro]

Yup. And this is certainly not the only case. I've been involved in two cases where dragging people was way too easy. Both times I was the one dragging, by the way, so no need to go all "omg ur just butthurt" on me. And no, there wasn't even anyone else helping.

[Marian]

Something like 10-15% tiredness per person seems reasonable to me. I don't want to nerf dragging, but it'd be nice if after dragging several people you weren't immediately capable of killing them, so maybe there'd be time for some RP to develop.

In the case of the 'massacre' everyone blew up in that other thread over, I see no reason why a well-organized strike team shouldn't be able to take over a medium-sized town...in most cases only a handful of citizens are equipped to defend themselves anyway, and if the bad guys have gone through all the trouble of preparing and coordinating they shouldn't be punished for being smart and active and successful...even if they are stupidly lazy and inconsiderate when it comes to bothering to RP. (which is something I don't get at all...a HUGE event like this, I would milk it for all it's worth...)

But speaking as someone who has run and helped run a few towns, combat is way to slanted in the defender's favor already, assuming it's not one of those places where one sleeping old person is holding every single key...and wiping out that kind of town can only be healthy for the game.