Denominational discussion (split from CR forum)

[Stan]

Really? Don't know much about them. I thought they were simply an "Evangelical Catholic" organization within the Catholic Church. Why are they a sect?

[Nixit]

Well... they are a little shady. I might be able to pull something up...

EDIT: Okay...

The founder of Opus Dei was Josemaria Escriva and he published a book called The Way. This is a book that is a collection of 999 religious sayings and basic rules that a member of Opus Dei must abide by. This book was very controvesial.

Also, the rituals that Opus Dei perform have been controversial. They believe in pain and self-mortification. Example: for at least 2 hours everyday, except Sunday, a member must wear a cilice (spiked chain) on his or her upper thigh. Example: They must wear a cord-like whip on their backs or bottoms once a week. Example: They must take cold showers every day. "No ideal becomes reality without sacrifice. Deny yourself. It is so beautiful to be a victim!" Phrase 175 of The Way.

They are also very secretive. Rule 463 states, "do not reveal the secrets of your apostolate: don't you see that the world is full of selfish not-understanding?" They are supposed to have blind obedience; they are not supposed to question a command no matter how pointless they think it is.

I know a bit more... heh, did a paper about them.

[Schme]

Those guys? Oh, those guys are crazy.

One time, I met this Jamaican one, and he ended up stabbing me eight times in the stomach and once in the shin.

But it turned out to be a mistake, and he bought me lunch to make up for it.

Yup. Those crazy Jamaican cultists..........

[Nixit]

Yeah...

[west]

I prefer Rastas.

[Stan]

Agree, sounds cultist. Rastas? Man...where have I been?

[Antichrist_Online]

What's the big hang up on organised religion for? I follow a dis-organised mix of paganism and taoist ideas. It works and I don't care what other people think, its their religion, they should come up with their own ideas.

[Nixit]

Who was against that?

[Birdsall007]

In my earlier post, I stated that I thought that a Muslims god is the same as the Hebrew and Christian God. Well, I've reconsidered after thinking about what the bible says.

Throughout the old testament, prophets who spoke in God's name, whose prophecies didn't come to pass, were put to death. While the Jews were given the law (containing the 10 commandments), the effect was to show that there was not one man who had never broken it. In other words, everyone had sinned against the Holy God.

The major theme of the prophets was Messiah and His life on earth. I can't remember the number of prophecies regarding him, but I believe it is in the hundreds. What I do know, is that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled them all. I guess what I should maybe say is that I believe this to be true, after all, I only have documents to prove what I say, much in the same way as we have documentation that there was a battle at Hastings in 1066.

Anyway, back to why I no longer believe that Muslims worship the same god as Jews and Christians. I have mentioned that prophets were careful to speak only the words of God. Jesus was viewed as a prophet by the Jews even after he claimed to be Messiah. Muslims also believe that Jesus was a prophet, but they do not accept his claim to be Messiah. They say that he was a good man, nothing more. More than this though, they claim that Allah is god, effectively turning people away from the Hebrew and Christian God.

Going back to Jesus, he was accused of removing the requirements of the law. He refuted this stating that he was fulfilling it. In other words, the law still stands to show us that we are sinners. He fulfils it by taking the penalty required, allowing us access to God. Now if the law still stands, the law about false prophets still stands. Anyone who turns people away from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is regarded as a false prophet and is deserving of death. Muhammed, by teaching that Allah is god, has turned people away from the worship of God, who gave his name as 'I am' or Yahweh.

I am writing this response because I was asked to go on. Whilst there is much more that could be said, I don't know which way to go so if you want more information, please ask a question (or 10) rather than just asking me to go on.

In response to AOl, you may find that it works for you, however the bible teaches that it doesn't work for God. If you believe there is a god, and that he is good, why would he not warn us that he is angry with us and tell us how to avert his anger. If on the other hand, god is not good, why would we want to worship him? And finally, if there is no god, why bother worshipping anything?

I guess this will do for now. I hope that people will see that I am not trying to offend them, but that I consider it more important to tell you the truth, than to stay quiet.

[wichita]

Wow. I wish more christians would actually read their Bible. I almost wrote similar arguments but decided not to post it Birdsall. Glad someone is better at keeping the Faith than I apparently am.

I was in a discussion last week about the new pope. I heard that a lot of people were complaining about him stating the Jesus is the only way doctrine, and talking about how it was going to offend people of other religions and blah blah blah blah. But that is the way it has to be, if the Bible is still to be regarded as the Holy Book of Christianity. And it's very clear about it, the Scriptures don't hide it at all. The sad thing is that if they ever get exposed to the Bible at all, a lot of "christians" just want to pick and chose what rules to pay attention to and which to ignore. An example is abusive drunken gay-basher racists who still go to church, aka the KKK.

What I think people are confusing at times is the difference between <i>tolerance</i> and <i>acceptance</i>. I can tolerate people not accepting my religion and living in sin - I can even be friends with them and get along quite well. I do not have to accept it though - It is still something that I should disagree with and work to change in the world and it's people. Be in the world but not of the world as the Scripture says. It also says to spread the Word with Love, Kindness, and Mercy - not start Crusades to kill the heretics.


Um...I think I'll stop rambling now.

[SuperSonicScientist]

Hmmm.. interesting?

Do any muslims play cantr at all... I don't see them speaking up.

I would consider myself a christian too, but most people do culturally where I am. I beleive there is much to discern between a christian and a follower of christ....

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Yes, they do. Dee is one, and has spoke up quite a bit in this religion thread that you may have yet to see: http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8766&start=0

[SuperSonicScientist]

Holy Macaroni, that's one long thread...

You could make that into a book!