Chris wrote:gejyspa wrote:But I still challenge you, as I've said before, to explain away the revelation at Sinai. What happened there? Nothing? It was suddenly made up, 500 years later, with the claim that your parents told you that their parents told them that it their parents told them... that it happened, because they witnessed it? How do you bootstrap that at any time subsequent to the supposed time? (Remember, we're not leaning on a someone's word of a far-distant event that they put down in a book, like with Xenu, but with a simultaneous claim passed down by oral family histories). Write me a book that says something happened 500 years ago, and I may not be able to refute it, but write me a book that says that something happened 500 years ago AND says that my father told me happened, and that's falsifiable.
What do you find persuasive about that story? According to Exodus, the events didn't seem to make a lasting impression. Days later, while Moses was up on the mountain, the people made a calf idol. After meeting Yahweh, they made a calf. Is that what they saw? Or was it the fire and smoke that is impressive?
Right, so I will go right into the Jewish apologetics (i.e. our understanding (excuses?) of the incident). You can chose to accept or reject any of this as you choose:
First, it wasn't the Jews themselves who engaged in the idol worhsip, but the "mixed multitude", i.e. those Egyptians who feared God and went out with them.
Second, it wasn't understood by the people that a representation of God wasn't allowed, only those of other, false gods. They thought that just as Moses had acted as an intercessory for them up until that point, that the calf would do the same, since they misunderstood that the amount of time on the montain to include the day of going up, which wasn't a full day, so Moses didn't count it. They gave up unfortuantely rather quickly, after 230 years of slavery, they didn't have a lot of patience...
Third, Aaron's asking for the jewelry was a delaying tactic, since he felt people wouldn't give it up. He was wrong. He had feared for his life, since they had killed Hur for not making the idol.
So, yeah, they screwed up. And yup, it does seem incredible they would do so, right after that awesome sight, but there ya go.
Cynical take, but I guess pretty accurate. 3000 men killed out of 600,000? Seems most accepted the party line, then?Yahweh told Moses that this encounter is supposed to be a solid foundation, so no one has to take Moses' word alone for everything. But it seems not to have worked. Moses must rally his supporters and slaughter the others. The story seems to tell, not of unity as the result of a supernatural encounter, but rather of unity achieved through killing those who disagreed with Moses.
Where is Mount Sinai? Where is the archaeological evidence of anything uniquely non-natural from that story? We found Troy. We find evidence of what people ate and how they lived millions of years ago. We know how the solar system formed and the Big Bang. Lack of physical evidence is not a conclusive rebuttal, but it should be an embarrassment to those who believe that the stories' supernatural elements happened exactly as they are written.
Mt. Sinai is generally assumed to be Jebel Musa, whose name means "Mountain of Moses" in Arabic, but no one really knows for sure, and Jews really don't care. The mountain only had holy status so long as the presence of God was there. There wouldn't be any evidence of non-natural things there. What are you expecting to see? The sound of thunder and the ram's horn? Lightning strikes? A tape recorder with the voice of God???
