Industrial Sized Machines

[Anthony Roberts]

Perhaps a minimum number of workers to operate the machine?

[Solfius]

I liked the comment about them being building sized.

And there'd need to be more support tools as well, to cope with the massive amounts of materials being slung around.

So, a smelting tower. Requires additional stone as well as the iron. Maybe like a large smelter combined with a building (28,000g stone). Would also need hoists and pulleys, along with holding vessels to move the molten iron about. Need at least 6 people to operate, and work at 3 times effeciency.

Now, that is a beast of a smelter.

BTW anthony, are hoists and pulleys part of the smelting system? It was the intention they would be. Perhaps this is where they can become part if they're not already

[Anthony Roberts]

BTW anthony, are hoists and pulleys part of the smelting system? It was the intention they would be. Perhaps this is where they can become part if they're not already

I very much agree. I'm liking the sound of this so far.

[Doodle_Jack]

I see....

Industrial revolution...

Before you know it there are iMAC's in Cantr and stuff....

[Solfius]

Could you imagine trying to build the machinery to create a silicon chip in Cantr?

[Doodle_Jack]

Could you imagine trying to build the machinery to create a silicon chip in Cantr?

Sure! And before you know it internet is being invented in Cantr and someone will build a webserver and create an online RPG....

[Anthony Roberts]

Could you imagine trying to build the machinery to create a silicon chip in Cantr?

Sure! And before you know it internet is being invented in Cantr and someone will build a webserver and create an online RPG....

Sooner or later. Cantr has to evolve

[Just A Bill]

Theses smelters tended to be single use machines. They made iron and thats it. They might be able to use coal or charcoal, but they did not make steel or bronze. They were more specialized. And they are not all that modern. This type of smelter has been around for a couple hundred years at least.

[formerly known as hf]

I really like this idea - especially the machines being building sized... I was going to mention somehting like what Just A Bill just wrote - but would add that, for the sake of Cantr (and the sanity of Cantrians) the buildings/machines should be able to smelt everything a normal smelting furnace can...

[The Industriallist]

According to some web sources you can find blast-furnace type constructs (which is what we're talking about here, isn't it) as far back as the 13th century...though obviously they were crude and small by comparison to later versions.

Restricting the oversize smelter to iron-making doesn't seem unreasonable to me...except maybe in the context we have of refusing to tell people what the thing they are making is.

If you call it "advanced smelter" or "giant smelter" or something like that, it had better be able to do anything a smaller smelter can. Unless you enjoy being blasted by people who reasonably assumed it would do whatever they wanted better than a "smelting furnace".

Interesting point...large blast furnaces were a reason for the switch from charcoal to coke in smelting iron, it seems. Something about coke better being able to support weight...

[Nick]

Well if the big smelter is only going to be able to smelt one kind of metal, then for compensation, it should smelt even more efficiently.
I'd also like to see a steel counterpart.

[Anthony Roberts]

Well, considdering we already have coke in game and fully operational... we could very well use that as the ingredient.

Plus, ya know, coke has... no uses, really. Sure could use one. Or a few.

Personally, I think one machine will do, with Bronze, Iron, and Steel smelting all possible in large quantities. To make you build three machines is just absurd.

Unless you WANT it that way...

[Just A Bill]

I believe the large scale production of steel was much later in history IRL. The major innovation there was the Bessemer Process, where high pressure air was forced thru the iron to convert it to steel This process was patented in 1855.

I am not really sure where I come down on the whole "How modern is Cantr?" subject, but the cheap, rapid production of steel took place significantly after the cheap production of iron. Of course both of those took place before the invention of cars, and helicpoters, but I digress.

[Solfius]

Personally, I think one machine will do, with Bronze, Iron, and Steel smelting all possible in large quantities. To make you build three machines is just absurd.

Unless you WANT it that way...

If we can find evidence that a single smelter is capable of producing them all, then sure.

I can't think of any reason why not, but I quite like the idea of a massive industrial town of giant smelters pumping out all kinds of metal.

Here's an idea. Can we make it like an actual combined building/smelter, where you have to enter it and place the materials in a holder, then go to a different room to work on it or whatever?

[The Sociologist]

So, a smelting tower. Requires additional stone as well as the iron. Maybe like a large smelter combined with a building (28,000g stone). Would also need hoists and pulleys, along with holding vessels to move the molten iron about. Need at least 6 people to operate, and work at 3 times effeciency.

I like these ideas in principle but we should be careful not to get too carried away. I'm thinking late medieval / pre-industrial period. In the above case it should need wood as well as stone; maybe a bit of mud for mortar, but perhaps a lower quantity of stone itself than the above 28K; startup iron of course but certainly not as much as 3000 grams. A bit of startup steel for a bucket of some kind (ie holding vessel); the hoists and pulleys is an excellent idea.

Ten-times output would be too much. About 3-4 times output is more likely, and also the input materials and labor have to be carefully balanced against that, else nobody will ever build one. As a transitional machine, I believe it should still accept charcoal as well as coke, with coke being appropriately more efficient. Output can be iron only. I believe the old smelters can supply current steel needs.

Minimum for operation should perhaps be 4 rather than 6 people. Remember that to be safe, you'd need 5-6 people on it anyway, because one of the four will for sure end up running about or even dropping dead. Then you need other people supporting the smelting, crushing hematite, etc. So you're looking at 8-10 active people indoors anyway to support the 4, and that's a big operation by current cantrian standards.

Overall, I like the idea and most of the suggestions so far. It's also what we really do need when vehicle deterioration is finally implemented.