Family relationships?

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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BosBaBe
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby BosBaBe » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Marian wrote:There's no contradiction, I was talking about my OOC vs IC reactions. My characters can't see it as 'true' family dynamics because in game 'true' families don't exist. While my OOC self thinks its creepy and weird for someone to RP sex with their daughter, especially when the that character is talking and acting like a child.

I mean I'm sure there are entire sections of the internet dedicated to exactly that, I just don't like to see it in Cantr, where my character has to nod and smile and pretend like it's normal.

(Even though even IC, characters with mental disabilities getting sexually exploited ought to be disturbing too, but Cantr society is amazingly backwards in some ways while being progressive in so many others...)


Hey, it's a two way street. I find it incredibly disturbing when these child like characters have any sexual relationships, and the weird thing is they get picked up like this. *clicks fingers* I made one and someone grabbed her butt just days after she spawned, and she freaked. But I've seen some of them go along with it, and I'm all, "... if you're going to play a child character, it means they aren't going to get their rocks off to that. They'd sooner cry and scream for their parents"
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Cdls
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Cdls » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:31 am

Marian wrote:While my OOC self thinks its creepy and weird for someone to RP sex with their daughter, especially when the that character is talking and acting like a child.


Children don't exist in Cantr.
Familial relationships don't exist in Cantr in the same way they do in real life.

If you are OOCly seeing them as how they are represented in real life, then yeah it is definitely creepy, but Cantr isn't real world, and how those things exist in the game are not the same as they are in the real world. I think it makes certain things like that easier to not be creeped out by if you separate their real world meanings from that of the Cantrian world.


Marian wrote: characters with mental disabilities getting sexually exploited ought to be disturbing too


This I do agree with though.
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Marian
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Marian » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:18 am

Children don't exist in Cantr but it's kind of a moot point when some people are deliberately RPing their characters as children. The sun doesn't exist either, and blind or mute characters don't exist, there are tons of things that don't technically exist in game but we all just roll with it when someone else is emoting and some things are just assumed or taken for granted. (Such as Cantrians having the needed parts for sex-having in the first place, with or without their 'family'... :wink:)

I feel like this is an argument that could go round and around though and it's all based on opinion so it's kind of pointless, I didn't intend to step on anybody's toes and I'm not singling out anyone's characters. (even if I was it's been ages since I played, not even sure if the ones that first jumped to mind are still around...)
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cutecuddlydirewolf
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby cutecuddlydirewolf » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:33 am

Marian really has a point… it's all in the perspective of the player. Though characters may look and act like children, they're still adults.
I've actually never had one of my child-like characters be accosted or have sex proposed to them… maybe I'm just rather fortunate? XD Though some of mine are specifically meant to be children- or the Cantr interpretation of children- I still make them have some adult thoughts, such as marriage, for instance, or getting a job. I just do it like how it would be in the eyes of an actual child.
Like Marian said, I suppose it's all just up to interpretation and opinion. *shrugs* Certain people RP in a certain way, and that's their choice.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby computaertist » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:30 pm

The sun exists in some form now; remember weather has been implemented. What we're taking for granted is its likelihood of looking anything like Earth's sun when it might just be a cloud of fire that sometimes passes over locations, and sometimes there are more such fire-clouds so it's "very sunny". :D

The only reason any of my characters spawned so far had any physical capacity for sex is because the wiki had informed me as I devoured it that characters are strictly human, and I defaulted to wanting to play healthy and functional characters. This will likely not happen again as I have since decided Cantrians are clearly not human, just humanoid.

On topic, I tend not to be bothered by what other people do as long as no one's hurt. I can only feel sorry for the mentally ill being abused if said character shows any sign of maybe not liking the situation. And I have seen child-likes played as more mentally sound than some adult-likes, so I can't always consider them mentally ill. Just culturally different. Like they could act adult-like if they wanted to, but why should they? And real life inspired family names are clearly just titles here that mean particular types of closer than close friend.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby returner » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:38 am

I got really lucky with spawning a character with a stupid, child-like demeanor. Two characters, conveniently partners, were awake at the time she spawned and had similar physical attributes to her (I had already written my character attributes) - and as if that wasn't enough, they shared skill levels! So it was a comfortable fit and she became the "child" of the two. Right when they're getting married soon too... It's too perfect!

But this indicates to me that it is quite difficult creating families, even though someone is only spawned if there are two people in the area and they even share skills (thus strongly indicating the two people are responsible for the newspawn).
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Marian
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Marian » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:29 pm

Even if a newspawn is spontaneously created through some mysterious process using spores or part of another characters spiritual essence or however you want to explain it IC, that still doesn't mean they fit the RL definitions of parent and child.

I had a character leave a town not too long ago because they got sick of all the 'family' talk and felt like people were trying to force them into that role, and just in general it seems like there's a ton of people doing this now and it always seems weird and OOC to me. Especially since I think its a lot of the same players are doing this with all their characters because the idea just appeals to them IRL...

Though the example in the above post is kind of neat. :)
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saztronic
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby saztronic » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:26 pm

I think the ethical boundary for me is consent.

As a matter of law, society defines certain categories of relationships in which consent on the part of one of the participants is inherently impossible. In such cases, any sexual activity between the participants is classified as assault or rape committed by one party perpetrated against the other.

Obvious cases are teachers and students, correctional officers and prisoners, adults and children, caregivers and the mentally or developmentally disabled. From a legal standpoint (and I'd argue, an ethical one) the second class of participant in each case is assumed to be at the mercy of the former, and/or incapable of making informed or competent decisions. Therefore, consent is not possible. Any sexual encounters are inherently forced and indictable, no matter how 'willing' the second party is or seems to be.

Consenting adults, free of the kinds of encumbrances above, may choose to roleplay sexual situations that include feigned aspects of force, dominance, immaturity, restraint, incest, whatever. But the law requires the clear and explicit consent of both parties - and not ex post facto, but in advance. You can't punch someone out of the blue, then have sex with them, then claim afterward that it was all part of the game because the assaulted person never said 'no'.

Cantr has a standing rule that roleplaying sex should never involve minors, and should involve the consent of both players. This requires some OOC communication -- confirming ages, interests, and boundaries.

I'd argue that ethically speaking, roleplaying sex with characters incapable of consent IC, requires even an even higher bar of OOC coordination, definition, explanation, whatever.

Even if you satisfy that ethical hurdle, however, the fact remains that by participating in such activity, if it is public in the context of the game, then you are inflicting that activity on everyone else around your characters, and likely without the consent of those characters' players, and also likely without their desire -- in fact, with their active antipathy. I guess that kind of stuff happens in other situations too, but people are entitled to their disgust. They're entitled to leave, to refuse to play it out, to raise questions, and to complain formally or informally.

cutecuddlydirewolf wrote:Certain people RP in a certain way, and that's their choice.


As long as it is explicitly, clearly and legally their choice.

Other players can, equally, choose to react to it however they are moved to, and especially if they don't consent to being involved in it in advance.

I'm actively opposed to reading erotica involving children or mentally disabled people, or being exposed to it in any way. If I can't play Cantr without being exposed to it, I'll quit. I doubt I'm alone.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Joshuamonkey » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:37 pm

saztronic wrote:I'm actively opposed to reading erotica involving children or mentally disabled people, or being exposed to it in any way. If I can't play Cantr without being exposed to it, I'll quit. I doubt I'm alone.

+1
Personally I don't want to see it at all, no matter the ages of the players (or characters? I don't see how there can be children characters).

When I think of family relationships I think of the Macgregors, at least the Macgregors of the past, and I guess the Blackrocks are similar with that, and they all have the same last name. I think it can be complicated sometimes, but it seems like a good way to encourage unity and adds another dimension to the role play.
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Cdls
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Cdls » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:30 pm

Since this has been necro'ed...

I agree that minors should not be exploited (in any way, not just sexually) but there are no characters who are minors in Cantr. They all spawn in their twenties. This is the same point I was trying to make when this line of conversation happened -two months ago-.

There are characters who are underdeveloped physically.
There are characters who are underdeveloped mentally.
There are characters who are underdeveloped emotionally.
There are characters who are one or more of the above in game.

The above doesn't make the character a minor. It makes them underdeveloped in various stages of extremity.

On the flip side, taking the above considerations away and players who are seeing those characters as minors instead of underdeveloped adults, -that- is wrong. The game mechanics and in game messages (ie. on player pages : Man in twenties/woman in twenties) make it clear that regardless of the description, this is the age bracket they are in.

If you find players engaging in such behavior (ie. actively ignoring such mechanics and explicitly creating/engaging in acts that are inappropriate in this nature) then they need to be reported and dealt with.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby saztronic » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:28 am

Cdls wrote:Since this has been necro'ed...

I agree that minors should not be exploited (in any way, not just sexually) but there are no characters who are minors in Cantr. They all spawn in their twenties. This is the same point I was trying to make when this line of conversation happened -two months ago-.

There are characters who are underdeveloped physically.
There are characters who are underdeveloped mentally.
There are characters who are underdeveloped emotionally.
There are characters who are one or more of the above in game.

The above doesn't make the character a minor. It makes them underdeveloped in various stages of extremity.

On the flip side, taking the above considerations away and players who are seeing those characters as minors instead of underdeveloped adults, -that- is wrong. The game mechanics and in game messages (ie. on player pages : Man in twenties/woman in twenties) make it clear that regardless of the description, this is the age bracket they are in.

If you find players engaging in such behavior (ie. actively ignoring such mechanics and explicitly creating/engaging in acts that are inappropriate in this nature) then they need to be reported and dealt with.



I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say.

If an adult has the mental or emotional development of a child, then exploiting them is no different than exploiting a child or a minor. The words "adult" or "child" become superfluous at that point. It's a distinction without a difference.
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Meem
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Meem » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:21 am

How'd this get to talking about families, to talking about sex with daughters/children/mentally underveloped?

Back on track methinks!

I know the family relationships can be quite nice. Like take for example, large groups such as the Stone Knights. They're known as brothers and sisters "" technically. And for a personal character, Landis and his family, with his daughter Blue. That I think would be a good showing of how a family relationship can be without really being true family members by blood or spawnchild.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby hyrle » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:11 pm

I've had a few characters participate in "family relationships" that used the names of relationships that correspond to names of "family relationships" in the real world. My characters don't tend to start them, and none of my characters who have participated in them had prior knowledge of what each type of relationship meant. They let the other characters who proposed/invited my characters into their "family" to define what the words "sister", "brother", "mother", and "father" meant - and I always simply assumed that my character had no preconceived notions about what each word meant. In some cases, the participants in these relationships moved them into a sexual direction, and in others they did not. Because these characters have no preconceived notions about what these relationships mean, I don't try to apply RL morality to them.

I also have a character who I decided would function as "permanently sheltered emotionally", meaning that she was never exposed to taboos and doesn't understand them when others try to teach them to her. Other characters have attempted to explain taboo concepts to her, but she simply can't comprehend them and doesn't understand why they even exist. Her basic personality was defined as "carefree", "young" and "energetic", which makes others assume she is a child when she is not. (She's also weak and a terrible fighter, and so her physical description matches this as well, making her quite small.) The closest comparison to her that I've seen in popular entertainment would be "Kimmy Schmidt" - for those who have seen Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. The only difference, of course, is that Kimmy is capable of understanding adult concepts when they are taught to her... my character is not capable. She just simply becomes confused and keeps going about her life as sheltered as before. This has led to some extremely interesting RP with this character, and makes her one of the more fun ones I've played.

Judged through the lens of the RL world, some might wince at the decision to RP sexually with someone who is "family" or someone who acts "young" because it would be supremely taboo in the RL world. Because I operate from the assumption that these relationships were defined by the terms of others, I decided not to apply real-life taboos to the game. I hope that helps some of you understand why it doesn't bother me when some decide to RP sexually within Cantr in places where it would be taboo outside the game.
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Cdls
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby Cdls » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:19 am

saztronic wrote:I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say.



Go back and reread it. If you are still unsure, then PM me.



Children don't exist in Cantr. If you find people actively negating game mechanics, then they need to be reported.
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Re: Family relationships?

Postby returner » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:21 am

Cdls wrote:
saztronic wrote:I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say.



Go back and reread it. If you are still unsure, then PM me.



Children don't exist in Cantr. If you find people actively negating game mechanics, then they need to be reported.


This sums up what you're saying very succinctly and nicely. However I think they weren't being literal when he/she said "I'm not sure what you're trying to say", and rather were trying to suggest that there should be no difference between a child in a child's body and a child in an adult's body. Having sex with a child isn't illegal because the flesh/body has existed in the universe for too short a time (that sounds weird, sorry) - it's illegal because the child cannot consent to it. So if it's about consent, why is an adult-child any different?

And I agree - it's a very, very valid point. And an interesting discussion point that many players seem to have opinions on, so maybe it's fruitful to start a new thread.
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