Separate coin idea

[trexdino]

This seems like a better way to implement it, but it still has a problem. To use the plate in this manner, it would presumably need to be added onto the machine, but there is no mechanism now to disassemble machines. If you held the molds in your inventory and used it like a tool, there would be the problem of holding multiple molds. Also, I'm not sure that a tool can transfer any kind of information into a project's outcome, it is simply a presence or absence to make the project run.

Then again, seeing as how I'm not a full member of the RD and am basing this on assumptions, I could be entirely wrong.

I meant that it would be a tool, something you carry around with you, like a knife, or hammer.

[Doug R.]

In Cantr you can't trust anyone, so representative money, which is based on trust (that you can exchange the token for its value), can't be used. Commodity money is the only money with real value.

This suggestion to have commodity coins in different weights is very reasonable. Please to accept it.

I still fail to understand how a 20g iron coin is any different than 20g of iron. If there is no difference, then there is no point to implementing this suggestion. If there is a difference, then it must be that the coins hold a higher value than 20g of iron, and as such shows "representative" money actually works in Cantr, so again there is no point in implementing this suggestion.

I've said my peace.

[DylPickle]

Yep. But Doug is pointing out that there would be a serious problem if you were holding a 15 g mold and a 5 g mold at the same time. So, as neat as the idea is, if this was to be implemented then we'd be better off just having separate projects within the coin press, because it would be needed anyways if you had to declare what mold you'd be using. Just like how the game doesn't automatically choose if you're using a hammer or a sledgehammer to crush hematite. You have to declare it when you initiate the project.

But ya. This suggestion is ok, but do we really need it? The currency problem is limited only to the extent of player participation. If players don't choose to use it, it'll never work. Never. Ever.

[shapukas]

Ofcourse we can RP it that those coins difers in value. Well... at least i tryed. We will make coins with the sistem as it is now. I just thot that this whay it would be mach more easyer to implement then stockable coins. How long sockable coins are accepted but not implemented? Oh well, just forget it.

P.S. If society is grown inof and can guaranty the value of eany coin then 1 iron coin could have more value then 10g of iron.

Edit:
One more thing. If i'd like to make iron coins with diferent number on them then i would need two presses wright? So, cant there be implemented new presses? Or is it too dificult too? New presses could make bigger coins, or smaler, it doesnt matter. 10g coins coud be the largest ones. Just say is it too dificult or not? If it is, then forget about it.

[Chris]

There are different types of money: commodity money and representative money.

Commodity money is any money that is both used as a general purpose medium of exchange and as a tradable commodity in its own right. An example is coins made of precious metal.

Representative money is money that consists of token coins that can be reliably exchanged for a fixed quantity of a commodity such as gold, silver or potentially water, oil or food. Representative money thus stands in direct and fixed relation to the commodity which backs it, while not itself being composed of that commodity.

I think that economists usually consider those two essentially the same. You left out money that is not backed by commodities at all. That's pretty much all money that exists in RL today.

In Cantr you can't trust anyone, so representative money, which is based on trust (that you can exchange the token for its value), can't be used.

Lots of individual people and and a few organizations are trusted. That trust can be betrayed, but it exists. To say that trust is impossible denies what really happens every day in the game.

Commodity money is the only money with real value.

This suggestion to have commodity coins in different weights is very reasonable. Please to accept it.

Why not just use iron or steel? Then if you want to use them to make tools or machines, you don't have to reclaim the metal from coins.

[T-shirt]

Lots of individual people and and a few organizations are trusted. That trust can be betrayed, but it exists. To say that trust is impossible denies what really happens every day in the game.

My characters must be living in the wrong parts of the Cantr world. Heart attacks, sleepiness and lack of goals is common.

Why not just use iron or steel? Then if you want to use them to make tools or machines, you don't have to reclaim the metal from coins.

Exactly. That's why none of my characters has seen any coins been used.

In real life, you can only guess the weight of some precious metal and you can only guess the weights of the merchant aren't false. If you have a coin the weight is written on it and the minter guarantees that weight (unless the coin is clipped).
In Cantr you do know the weight of some precious metal, no need to verify that weight. So no need for coins.

Unless trustworthy representative money is used.

[Dapre]

Yes, I made an account just to say this.

My character has seen a great economy based on coins and two other characters have seen someone try to build an economy based on coins.
The value of the coin isn't really the metal used in, it is based on the value the leaders of the town gave it to. One coin represents the labour done in one day.

So one coin of this type, would get me i.e. 300 grams of wood, 2 coins 600 grams etc. etc.

This suggestion being implemented would just make this easier, since it would limit the metals required to make this. The economy I mentioned, uses at least 4 different metals to make a difference between the coin for 1 days labour and then 1+x days of labour etc. etc. Now we could have:

(After pressed in the press the 5g iron coin could be:)
Very light iron coin - 1 days of labour
(The 'normal' 10g coin)
Light iron coin - 2 days of labour
(15g)
Iron coin - 3 days of labour
(20g)
Heavy iron coin - 4 days of labour

(maybe a bit too much for one metal to have 4 different sizes, but anyways)

(5g silver coin)
Light silver coin - 10 days of labour
etc. etc.


Just the way I see this could be implemented, but I see no reason for this not to be implemented.

[Chris]

Lots of individual people and and a few organizations are trusted. That trust can be betrayed, but it exists. To say that trust is impossible denies what really happens every day in the game.

My characters must be living in the wrong parts of the Cantr world. Heart attacks, sleepiness and lack of goals is common.

If there were zero trust in Cantr, no one would ever trade. Someone has to give/drop/do something first. That doesn't mean there is 100% trust. But there has to be at least some minimal level of trust, or no one would ever enter into contractual arrangements. Risks on other people's integrity are taken every day. If everyone expected the worst from others, it would be irrational to take these risks. But much of the time, the risks pay off.

[jexter]

I'm sorry for my mistake for the gold standard. I'm living in XIX century I guess

And again Cantr is not nowadays, back then and earlier money was "worth in real" and not just existed on trust.

Actually it's kinda strange to me, that our money is worth nothing except how much we trust it... Ok I'm not an economist it's to hard for me, don't bother explaining to me, I will ask some friends

Yes we could just carry iron or steel and in fact many do that (at least lithuanian), there is no point making coins. But having coins make the thing a little more realistic and more fun.

If implementing my suggested version (just different projects for different size coins with different requirements of material for them) is not to hard and some players would use it (this version would change nothing from the model we use now) it should be implemented. Those who find it enough a 10g coin will continue using just them.

Again about using coins. There is a lithuanian city which makes coins and in the notes just says. Every trade there is done by coins, if you don't need them just make them into iron. Yes in one way why bother and make coins anyway in other way I believe the leader of that city just wanted to make it more realistic.

Waiting for another avalanche of comments about my economy "skill".

[Tiamo]

Jexter, IRL you use paper money, do you? Just a paper note that says 'this note is worth xx Lithuanian currency units'. Your national bank creates those notes and (more or less) guarantees their value (by trust, not by tangible resources).

I think the most efficient money system in Cantr would be a similar system. Start a 'bank', create (non-copyable) notes and assign some standard value to them. The way Dapre pointed out.
Maybe the ability to create ultra-light paper money would be a good idea. As long as it can be made unique by the creator (e.g. by an 'autograph').

Money (also named 'bank note') has in fact no real use of its own, it is no more than evidence that someone (the creator of the note) owes you something, an evidence of debt. It is usable for trading based on the belief/trust that the creator will, eventually, deliver what he owes to the holder of the note.
I remember that in Italy, before the introduction of the euro, almost every bank issued its own bank notes, notes that everyone used as 'real' money.

[shapukas]

As Jexter said, in some regeones we do trade and trade a lot. Those towns, that just gather resourses, does that more quiker then other towns makes some sort of things out of those resourses. In that whay one town has to by more raw materials, then it can sell finished produckt. Then they have to make some notes how mach more resourses they are in debt. That is very uncomfortable. So we would like to make coins. Bu now we sea tiny problem. It would be more easyer to RP if there were different coin weight. Or it coud be made the whay that we coudnt sea how much coin weights. I personaly have made some calculations and we coud use 4 tipes of coins. At least 3 tipes is nessesery. In eany trade we would use prom 1-5 coins of diferent metal and nominal. So, to give 5 coins is much more easyer then 20 and more and it wont take lots of space in inventory.

[joo]

Maybe it would be better to have higher value coins, instead of being made of more of the same type of metal, to be made of multiple types of metal. For example, the British £1 coin is made of just Copper/Zinc/Nickel - only one piece needs to be made, while the £2 coin has an outer ring made of Copper/Zinc/Nickel and an inner ring made of Nickle/Copper - obviously this is larger and harder to make than the £1 coin.

For a coin made out of more that one type of metal, the project should take longer and require a more complex press. An iron coin would be maybe 1 day of labour, while a coin made of both gold and silver might be two years (40 days) of labour!

[shapukas]

Are you insane? 1 coin in 40 days? At this time i think you van make 1 coin in 0,2 days What is the polite word for stupid idea? Too complex to make coin from diferent aloys. If it is possible just make diferent weight coins and i'll be very greatful And i think i'll be not the only one.

[joo]

The coins I gave that were made from alloys were just an example - I was demonstrating that a coin made separately from different metals could be more valuable than one from just one metal. And I meant that a gold and silver coin could be worth 40 days of labour, not made in 40 days. To get all the required tools, materials and machines to actually make one would take longer than two years.

[Chris]

I think that any programming on coins would be a wasted effort. Organizations large enough and trusted enough to establish a currency are few and far between, and the problems with maintaining player population doesn't bode well for them. The labor for making metal into coins, and back again, is a waste. Just use the metal itself as a medium of exchange. Metals like iron have high value density and are already "stacked." You can give 1 g of iron or a million. Coins in Cantr are really just a vanity item like clothes.