Education

[Pie]

I say bring back the cane. Give a child a good caning and solve the problem.

Hits BadMonkey with a cane. WRONG ANSWER! The parants will never go for that. The people who run the schools do not believ in corpral punishment.. and i personally do believ that Violance Begats(YES PEOPLE! i know the word Begats) more Violance.

[wichita]

I say bring back the cane. Give a child a good caning and solve the problem.

Hits BadMonkey with a cane. WRONG ANSWER! The parants will never go for that. The people who run the schools do not believ in corpral punishment.. and i personally do believ that Violance Begats(YES PEOPLE! i know the word Begats) more Violance.

It is begets, by the way. Spare the rod and spoil the child. (Do you want to argue with the Bible, Pie?)

I think there is a correlation between bad attitudes and lack of corporal punishment. Although, it doesn't really deserve use much above the third or fourth grade. It was very effective in my elementary school. We didn't lip off nearly as much as kids do now. Sure there are good kids who listen to reason, but there are far too many who won't. I think people are afraid of having corporal punishment as the default mechanism for correction, which is valid. It should be a last resort for a problem child that is exhibiting a total lack of respect for authority.

Of course it takes a wise adult to realize when the time has come to beat some sense into a child. Too many simply use it because they are angry and want to vent their frustration. If you are simply taking out your anger during corporal punishment, you are defeating its purpose. It is there to back up the threat and demonstrate authority. Of course kids don't realize this. They just think it's mean. I think the true meaning of it all hit me at like age 20 or so.

[The Industriallist]

In college calculus every problem I worked was either a story problem or a mathematical proof. I believe that this is the single curricular problem that is killing math in the US, and it does not require a lot of funding to fix it. It also does not require massive amounts of funding to implement experimentation in science classes. It just takes good teachers who are able and willing to instill the interest in their students and a culture that doesn't discourage intelligence and education. The US has a long way to go in this department, that is for sure.

The strongest 'not enough money' arguement, I think, is that teacher salaries wind up being quite low. As it's set up only people who are prepared to sacrifice significantly to teach, or people who go into it either because it looks easy or because it's the best job they can get the credentials for (which are pretty low). Considering the rarity of the first variety, you don't end up with nearly as many motivated, smart teachers as you'd like...

The English system is just as screwed up. In maths they give you a set of basic questions, for example, and then story questions. This means that only the more able children do the story questions. This gives those who understand the math a greater understanding, and creates a large gap in ability when the exams come around, especially as they are often based on story problems and proofs.

I don't think I quite get it...my lack of insight, I'm sure. How can they not get the story problems if they know the math? Can't they read?

WRONG ANSWER! The parants will never go for that. The people who run the schools do not believ in corpral punishment.. and i personally do believ that Violance Begats(YES PEOPLE! i know the word Begats) more Violance.

While I would have some concerns about bringing back caning (mostly because I don't trust the jidgement or even sanity of some of those who'd be allowed to apply it), those aren't good reasons.

For one thing, most parents aren't going to pull out of the public school system to get away, I suspect, so what they think shouldn't really have much effect.

For another, violence, applied in a measured manner as punishment for actual transgressions, has no plausible reason to produce more violence except perhaps down the line in an equivalent context (which, if it was effective in the first place, wouldn't be an actual problem). Except of course in the occasional massive screwup, around whom so much educational policy is based...

I mean, scenario here. A student gets caned in 6th grade for handing in a 50% misspelled essay. Consequently the student does which of the following?
-Try not to do something so stupid next time.
-Attempt to assault the teacher (on the spot or later).
-Bring in a gun and attack either the teacher, or random bystanders.
-5 years later, burning with rage over this slight, begin my killing spree.

Which of these is even rremotely plausible for someone who isn't already flat out insane? The first, and possibly the second under some circumstances. Of course, we have this whole government thing that's supposed to nail anyone who does that, certainly before they do such a thing again...it's not too good at the job sometimes, so this is a potential problem, since our society's so messed up already.

[BadMonkey]

I don't think I quite get it...my lack of insight, I'm sure. How can they not get the story problems if they know the math? Can't they read?

My point was that the story type questions are reserved until completion of basic examples are completed. So those who understand the math get the story type questions and a better understanding of the math, whereas those who struggle don't get to the story type questions, and so continue to struggle.

[formerly known as hf]

Anything that is examined ends up being reduced to retaining information, and reproducing it when asked.

and here I was thinking uni would be different...

I feel for you Surly - I've been saying the same thing for years - examinations expect nothing more than retention - it doesn't foster understanding, let alone interest, a desire to look deeper than simply what you ned to know to pass.

Education is one of the fundamental things in life, and I agree with a lot of what mortaine has said. How our brains work, how they function, how they learn, is formed largely in the first few years of development. Neurologically, the pathways in our brain are very flexible for the first three years of our lives. Once we reach the age of five, however, the pathways are almost concrete, and they'll never shift the way they have again. As such, the best age at which to teach your kid another language is at the same time they're learning to speak.

As for the education system - I'm just glad I live in the UK - I'd be the first to moan about the standards in this country, but, at the same time, I'm deeply thankful that I'm not living in a poorer country. Millions of people are deprived of something that is one of the fundamentals for a better life.

[wichita]

Well, for as much money as the US is supposed to have, our educational system has been in the crapper for 30 to 40 years, so there is something else that is wrong. I will still say that apathy on the part of society still seems to be the biggest hurdle, in my opinion. And teachers do deserve a pay raise to help encourage quality. Just so long as it doesn't turn into med school, where unqualified morons bribe and butt-kiss their way into a fortune.

I was grateful to have very dedicated professors instruct me during undergrad. They made a point to not simply test us on retention, but instead gave us a certain portion of questions on tests that did not involve material directly covered in class. This set of questions required us to actually take the material covered in class and apply it in a different way, effectively assessing our comprehension, creativity, intelligence, and just all around reasoning capabilities. Without this practice, I don't think I would be half as good at my job, or at life, as I am today.

Someday I hope to have the freedom to run a class like this and the one I mentioned in my earlier post. I strongly believe that this is the type of direction curriculum should take to provide a quality eduaction. The rest of the problems will be reduced once the society at large can place real value in the educational system, or in instilling some honor for hard work and dedication back into our modes of operation.

[Flak Jacket]

One thing the entire world needs is less work, in my opinion. I mean, who really needs half the things our taxes pay? I'd rather have less, do less.

[Racetyme]

All of you, stop blaming the system, if you work at what you do you can succeed. Blaming the system is just an excuse for not working hard. Get off your duffs and do what you need to do to succeed, then maybe your teachers will care about you more. Just today, my english teacher gave me a book to read because she thought I would like it and she cares about me, not because it is required. And do you know why she gives a damn? Because I work hard and I am smart. Now not everyone can be smart, but if you work hard you will at least be better than everyone else who dosn't work!

[Sunni Daez]

"You get what you put in".....It takes a want and desire of the student, to learn. The teacher should spark that desire...When I was in 6th grade...my science teacher told both me and my Mother , that girls don't deserve A's in science...well..that sparked me..and he had no choice but to give me that A..by working harder to obtain that A..it peaked my total interest in learning. Science is now the basis for what I do everyday. There is no 'one' specific 'problem'. Teachers are underpaid..thus lose their interest in teaching (not all but there are some) Students no longer fear going to the principals office, because the principal can no longer use the paddle. Alot of parents both work out of the home, (and have to) or are single parents who don't want to spend what little time they have with their child, discipling them. Teaching a child to want to learn in the earliest stages of life is the greatest gift to give them...I seen a 4 year old yesterday, count to 20 in both english then spanish...then asked to learn new words in spanish...just because it was made fun for him.

Well...theres my 2 cents