Cantr II Discussion Forum

Nearly every inhabited town I've seen has a beehive, and the one's where there aren't any, there aren't any people. If this isn't the case, it will be by next year. Beeswax is ridiculously hard to come-by for a consumable resource (i.e. candles and seals), so much so that neither of these are used often (candles on special occasions only, seals, well, never). If I can build a candle by working a few days on a beehive, or traveling 15 towns away to get the only beeswax naturally on the island, I'll stay local, but you better believe that if a beeswax trader comes along, I'll buy his and save myself a ton of work. The problem with lack of trade isn't that the goods aren't there to be traded, but that there are no traders taking goods to the consumer. I have better things to do than spend a year to go get beeswax, but I'll trade if you bring it to me. All adding beeswax to the beehive will do is facilitate the consumption of beeswax for role-playing purposes, which means you'll be at a net zero gain since everything gathered is burned.

Very well put Doug. Some rare things should stay rare.

I'm sorry Echo, I read Dougs post as an argument for this suggestion. That is, you're not going make it any less rare, because as it's a consumeable, it's going to get used.

However it would be nice to see seals more often certainly, the mechanic is a really nice one, but never gets used because of this problem, that being the scarcity of wax.

I didn't. Again reading it he states that "rare things" is great because you can get trade out of it. And then that the effect of adding it to the beehive doesn't really change anything. Maybe I misinterpret it?

I also read Doug's argument as for the change, so long as the project gives a much smaller amount than going somewhere to gather, because he's basically saying, "If someone is there to trade it, people will trade for it because it's better than using the machine, but if there's not any trade, people will be able to use the machine so they can still make seals and candles which will use up basically all that they manage to make with the machine."

It doesn't make it much less rare to have a project on the machine, so long as the output of the project isn't very high.

Yeah, I agree with that, it should be atleast half of what collecting raw yeilds. Personally, this is a very exciting change for me as seeing more seals is something I've wanted for a while.

the_antisocial_hermit wrote:I also read Doug's argument as for the change, so long as the project gives a much smaller amount than going somewhere to gather, because he's basically saying, "If someone is there to trade it, people will trade for it because it's better than using the machine, but if there's not any trade, people will be able to use the machine so they can still make seals and candles which will use up basically all that they manage to make with the machine."

It doesn't make it much less rare to have a project on the machine, so long as the output of the project isn't very high.

Yes, exactly what I was saying.

Trade in Cantr, compared to what it used to be, is pretty much dead. You can't rely on traders to bring you anything anymore, and some things, like beeswax, simply aren't worth going to get yourself. Unless you can get it from another source, beeswax is a dead resource once your hive is built, at least in the English zone where it exists in only one location in a hundred (and as I said, nearly every populated town has their hive already).

oddedd wrote:Yeah, I agree with that, it should be atleast half of what collecting raw yeilds. Personally, this is a very exciting change for me as seeing more seals is something I've wanted for a while.

At most half I'd say... Preferrably a tenth.

EchoMan wrote:

oddedd wrote:Yeah, I agree with that, it should be atleast half of what collecting raw yeilds. Personally, this is a very exciting change for me as seeing more seals is something I've wanted for a while.

At most half I'd say... Preferrably a tenth.

my vote is for 10%-20% rate.
(considering time to collect flower/herb, and time to make wax on beehive as a non-automated protect.)

Yeah don't think I explained that well, I meant half at the most, 10% works for me too, just any atall will be nice.

I'm fine with 10%

I vote 5% or less.

Logic:

Collected as a natural resource: 425g a day. (10% is ~42g)

Candles require 50g. Thats about four candles every five days.
Beehive is 300g so seven days at 10%
Sealing wax: Difficult enough to get the other igredients but 100g of beeswax to start, so a few days.

This is still too easy to acquire.
I'd rather see 25g come off (I'm still against overall) which is half a candle and a quarter of the sealing wax requirement.

We all know someone will sit on the hives in some places and make a glut of the beeswax. And if someone really wants this outcome (a candle or a seal), they will do the required days on a hive.

Beeswax on most islands is a two or three day drive. Travel vs easy effort? Many players will use what is at hand and make with what they have. (Opportunity cost and effort required by player cost given time available to play) Travel also has it's downfalls. But at least give some incentive here to travel. (A discussion on why traders lose and fail has been covered in other threads but it's relavent here and maybe if we can change this trend then the argument is moot. [I want Pharap back!])

And at 25g a day, those islands that have no natural beeswax now have a chance to increase the stock if they manage to trade for some.

I agree, I wouldn`t want to see it any higher than that, and would be fine with even lowering it further as I do see large piles of it being produced in some places after a while.

Implemented and lowered candle build requirements to promote their use.

http://wiki.cantr.net/index.php/Beehive
http://wiki.cantr.net/index.php/Candle