Change the name of the 'coin press'

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

Moderators: Public Relations Department, Players Department, Programming Department, Game Mechanics (RD)

User avatar
formerly known as hf
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: UK

Change the name of the 'coin press'

Postby formerly known as hf » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:18 pm

It should be called 'the machine that makes little flattened disks of metal'... or something :)

Even though cantrians aren't supposed to know about things in the 'real world' - I'm already seeing a few characters talking about the coin press - immediately assuming that these 'coins' are a form of currency. Seeing that currency, in much of Cantr, is a completely unknown concept, this seems a little weird.

It would be more natural if the machine was named something else - and if the 'coins' could be used for other things - like jewellery... (Medallion men anyone?)...

That way, there would be more discussion about what to do with the machine, and what it creates, and less of this immediate interest in these 'coin things', and this 'coin press machine', and the progress to a currency based economy would be more natural...
Whoever you vote for.

The government wins.
User avatar
Agar
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 7:43 pm

Postby Agar » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:15 am

I'm wondering how long the name of the coin can be.

Potentially, you can now have flat little metal theology texts to spread your religion. Or news papers. If you can imbed pictures (and you should, but I don't think they will), then you could have maps. You could aslo use them as warrants, wanted posters, advertisements or anything else.

Basically, you can now have an un editable, un copiable note that's of short length.
Reality was never my strong point.
swymir
Posts: 1173
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Cape May, New Jersey

Postby swymir » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:46 am

Currency is not at all foreign in Cantr. I can name 3 places off the top of my head which uses a non-resource based currency.
"My mind works like lightning, one brilliant flash and it's gone."
Revanael
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:15 pm

Postby Revanael » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:00 pm

Maybe so. But all the places around them have disliked the idea of any currency system.

There's no valid IC reason for a place to suddenly say "Oh, let's just make these coin things and then we can spend money on things."

Even the places with established currency systems shouldn't just transfer straight over to coins. It just wouldn't make sense.

Places around the regions with established currency are the only ones that could really, sensibly, consider using coins without a good deal of RP to justify it.
Antichrist_Online
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: My Mistress's Playroom

Postby Antichrist_Online » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:08 pm

I still say they have other uses, like archiving. Two rooms, the one for income one for out and then we can have audits.
Mistress's Puppy
User avatar
formerly known as hf
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: UK

Postby formerly known as hf » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:53 pm

It's not that I don't like the idea of coins - I just dislike characters suddenly suggesting a currency system, because for some, unexplained reason, they know all about this thing called a coin press, and hat coins are used for currency...

I'd love to see coins used for other purposes - that would be great - that's what should happen - there should be a -'exploration' of the new machine and of coins - unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen where there's a lack of imagination

I'd be interested to know if the PD class 'knowing what a coin press does (as opposed to just being able to build it) when a character has not seen one in action or heard about it from another character' a CR breach - I'd have thought it would be?
Whoever you vote for.



The government wins.
User avatar
Nick
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:27 pm
Location: Halifax, Canada

Postby Nick » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:05 pm

I'd be interested to know if the PD class 'knowing what a coin press does (as opposed to just being able to build it) when a character has not seen one in action or heard about it from another character' a CR breach - I'd have thought it would be?


Too many threads on this topic alone, trust me.

My definition, that I use for myself, who as a player knows what pretty much all machinery does is simple. I believe characters should know WHAT it can do, as you are the one "designing" it. For instance, I RP that all my characters (who are smart enough) know that a smelting furnace smelts metal. I wouldn't, however, just assume that they all know what metals are required for steel, and at what ratio or anything like that. An oven cooks. etc.
User avatar
formerly known as hf
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: UK

Postby formerly known as hf » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:18 pm

Nick wrote:Too many threads on this topic alone, trust me.


I know that - My post was just teasing ;)

I think there just needs to be more imagination - I'm just glad to see it here in the forums - I just wish I was seeing it in Cantr..

1300-1: Project making coins has finished (50 coins ending up in the inventory of Jim)

1300-1: You say "ooohh... lookies at all these shiny things... gosh aren't they pretty..."

1300-1: Bob says to you "I've just made this little wooden bowl... I have an idea"

1300-1: Bob says "*Places bowl on the ground and the coins around it*"

1300-1: Bob says "I'm gonna call it TiddlyWinks"

...
Whoever you vote for.



The government wins.
User avatar
mortaine
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:22 pm
Location: Scotts Valley, CA
Contact:

Postby mortaine » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:28 pm

Well, of course, you can't actually have innovation in Cantr, because Cantrians have to wait for things and functions to be created (programmed) outside of the game and put into it. In this way, they are basically dependent on their gods for innovation.

But yeah-- some things that you might use a coin for:

A signature item-- if there's a coin from Seatown in a shipment of tools, then you know that shipment is from Seatown. Why would you care? Well, if skills could affect tool quality and Seatown were known for good tools, then you would care that your tools were made by better craftsmen.

A token of affection, much like jewelry.

A thank you or promisory note: I give you this coin as a mark of my respect and thanks. You can ask of me one favor in the future (this is similar to an economy, except it's more organic).

Thief-bait.... *cough* Put a box of these useless things in a space and wait for newspawns to grab them, never realizing that the real value of a place is not some useless currency, but rather the food they harvest.
--
mortaine.
swymir
Posts: 1173
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Cape May, New Jersey

Postby swymir » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:31 pm

/The point of the coin press was to have a form of currency. All the way back in the day when people in Quillinoi were complaining because the Quii had no physical backing. Don't tell me that people in Cantr have not thought of currency. It's all over the frigging place. There just isn't a standard that is hard. Now cantr people can have that standard.
"My mind works like lightning, one brilliant flash and it's gone."
User avatar
formerly known as hf
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: UK

Postby formerly known as hf » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:51 am

It's not 'all over the place' - it may be in Quillinoi, and I think I came across an attempt at currency somewhere - something to do with silk cocoons... But anyway - my point is that, part from a few very developed and busy places, it hasn't crossed any character's mind to do anything than barter...

I just don't like relatively primitive places suddenly developing the idea of currency - it seems so unatural - it's just a direct import of our society into Cantr, without regards for the society that currently exists in a certain place -

I'm no deep conservative - far from it - It just sleems glaringly OOC for people to start talking about currency in towns that can hardly even make steel...
Whoever you vote for.



The government wins.
Revanael
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:15 pm

Postby Revanael » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:37 pm

Swymir wrote:/The point of the coin press was to have a form of currency. All the way back in the day when people in Quillinoi were complaining because the Quii had no physical backing. Don't tell me that people in Cantr have not thought of currency. It's all over the frigging place. There just isn't a standard that is hard. Now cantr people can have that standard.


Currency is NOT hard, or definite. It is purely a concept based on agreeing the equivalent value of something. Also, it's virtually nowhere IC.

Why is money necessary?

Well, I could go into a whole load of economics, but... flat answer is, it ISN'T. Nor is it a simple concepl at all. So why should people suddenly think of it?

Oh, yes, that was right. I just said currency is not simple. But you say "It's so simply everyone understands it" or something, perhaps. Try explaining it to someone who DOESN'T know what a monetray system is.

"These little bits of paper can be exchanged for a car."
"What? But why would anyone give you a car if you gave them paper? It's too small to be useful to anyone!"

Paper money is perhaps an extreme example. But, say, for a single 50p piece I can go out and buy, say, a can of rice pudding. The can itself contains more metal than the coin. And then it contains rice pudding as well. Which, as a single object, is actually "worth more" if you disregard money?

You see? Money is not a simple concept. Of all the places in game that I've seen, only one could possibly consider using coinage. And they probably shouldn't because they have a perfectly good monetary system as it is.

That would be Quillanoi.

And NONE of the surrounding places can really consider it, because they've turned down the offer of joining the Quii currency many times already... preferring the idea of barter to currency.
User avatar
Agar
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 7:43 pm

Postby Agar » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:59 pm

So ...

Are you saying anyony mentioning the coin press who hasn't been through Quillanoi is breaking the CR?

...

And that the coin press was made EXCLUSIVELY for Quillanoi?

...

That hardly seems fair.
Reality was never my strong point.
wulf
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:23 am
Location: London, UK

Postby wulf » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:32 pm

What about all the other things you can build without having seen a glimpse of them? For example, I've got one character who's working on building a shelf. No-one can tell about what a shelf does from experience; it just sounds like it might be useful and so he's building one because it's on the list and he wants to experiment. The same could be said for all the other things you can make; a necessary fiction of the gameworld.

Wulf
User avatar
formerly known as hf
Posts: 4120
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: UK

Postby formerly known as hf » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:25 pm

wulf>
you've hit a fundamental question about Cantr - have a little sift through the topics, and you'll find endless discussion on it - with no definate answer...

I don't think the coin press was made exclusively for Quillinoi. But, neither do I think it was made exclusively for the creation of currency. I'm just asking that people realise how alien the concept of currency is to undeveloped bits of Cantr. In Quillinoi and surrounding areas, sure, the concept of currency has been discussed - and I have no problem with characters in those places relating the coin press to the possibility of a currency - what does annoy me, is when characters in places where nothing but bartering has ever occured, start to suddenly want to use the coin press to make a currency based economy - fundamental changes in thinking do not just pop out of the air like that - which is why it just seems OOC to me...
Whoever you vote for.



The government wins.

Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest