Individual Inventions

[Nixit]

Say you have an idea for a new weapon or something like that. You send it to the PD or someone like that. If they approve it, you choose one of your characters and they are able to build it, only them. Then, other people can study from you or learn how to build it. That way, certain cities could have more technology than another. The PD would have to approve it, so someone can't just ask to make a laser gun or something crazy like that.

[Pirog]

That would be kind of weird...if the only motivation for getting a great weapons is OOC knowledge. You can make a pretty good cannon from a single tree if you invent gunpowder for example...

[SekoETC]

Well I think this is a great idea. It would slow down things but some things should not be of common knowledge how to build, but the character would have to do research work first. Maybe some sort of an education system would be in place? A character starts a pondering project, then comes up with an idea, first a simple one, it doesn't necessarily have to work so well. Then the idea gets better and after various experiments we have a machine that works. Then the person can teach others how to make such things.

[Anthony Roberts]

I half agree with Seko, here. It's a good idea, but it's a bad idea. I'd really like to see some simulated technological advancement in the forum of research. Kind of like how Sho suggested long ago. Blueprints? No... but incorporated, sure, I don't mind.

I'd like it so that each person had their own technology tree based on where they started. So, say they started somewhere with lots of stone, their technology tree would reflect that, allowing them to build stone tools as basic, then branching off into other tools as they build the first ones (Or research others by studying foreign materials) to eventually unlock all possible objects to build. Say, for example, you spawned in a forest, you'd start with wooden tools, etc. Same thing here.

Eventually, there would be so much to learn, it would be impossible to learn everything that you can build, which will allow for specialization in trades (Ie: Some will be able to make extravent clothing, while others are more into building houses.)

THAT is what I would like to see. But it's such a heavy project to undertake. I doubt I'd ever see it born

[swymir]

I hate the idea.

I'm going to pretty much leave it at that. There is many other things I would rather see implimented first.

[Pirog]

Anthony Roberts>

If such a system would work it would be great, but I don't think that would even be possible. Not only would such a skill system have to be enourmously big, but it would demand a lot of on-the-spot programming if people came up with ideas about what they wanted to do...wich would happen a lot since Cantr differs so much from the real world.

And then people would likely want to invent things that doesn't exist IRL to get around resource limitations, and in a game like this it would be impossible to test if these inventions actually worked.

If everyone was excellent RPers and would play some characters as less inventive then others it might have a chance in hell of working, but in a such a free system almost everyone would end up being Einsteins or Leonardo da Vincis...

[Appleide]

May be using a 'level system'

In this system a person could only build an object if he had built the object a level under it. Eg.

Bone knife =level one (bone technology)

Bone spear =level two (bone technology)

Bone needle =level one (bone technology)

To build a bone spear a person must first build either the needle or the knife.

But this would make it tedious for someone in a big town where everyone has already learnt to build a spear except you, so it would take a long time to get to higher level things.

To solve this problem, one could add another way to learn to build things.

(observe)

This button would be beside every project that manufactures

One could be in observe mode, which is a project, and is finished when the project finishes.

When the project of level 3 is finished, the observing person would learn how to build that object, but not the level 2 objects below the level 3 one.

If that same person wants to build a level 4 object of the same branch of technology he would have to learn to build at least one level 2 object to complete the chain.

There would be different branches of tech
eg
wood
stone
iron
bone
steel

In some cases these would be combined

eg stone hammer (wood technology) (Stone technology)

This would probably classified as 'level 1' but if some one makes a stone hammer, then they would have the knowledge of both level 1 of wood and stone technology.

[Nixit]

Appleide's idea would probably work the best, but it might turn it a power hungry game; where everyone is just building things as fast as they could to level up. It might make it more hack n' slash. But there has got to be an easy way to make technology or whatever...
No...
Not that...
Wait! That wouldn't work...
Hmm...

[InsaneIrony]

Howabout if you work on a project of a certain level, you are then able to start learning that level (and possibly everything lower)... You cannot start projects of levels far above you.
Theres bone, stone, wood, iron, steel... and others... And projects can be Basic, Average, and Difficult... Gah. For a simple example...
Newspawn poofs into existance. Newspawn can't start an iron shield project, but can work on an iron shield project started by someone else. Now lets pretend Newspawn joins a group, is handed a hammer, and told to help a person with an iron shield project. Newspawn could then learn to work with iron much faster because he'd be learning from someone instead of learning on his own.

:/ I must be confusing people now, aren't I...

It could encourage group work and 'teaching' skills and trades to apprentices, making possible guilds.

Mmm... say Person has travelled alone all his life. He learns from nobody. He starts out and can make Average Bone tools well. He picks up a rock and wants to use it. He can start a Basic Stone project, and learn to work with stones by more stone projects, going to Average and possibly Difficult projects with time. After learning to make stone tools of a decent quality, he can learn to make basic wood tools... And so on.
It would help with CR for technology stuff, because then to be able to start something like smelting steel, you should have learned to work with iron first... As in newspawns can't wake up and run around planning to make and use iron and steel in their first twenty days of life.

[Pirog]

InsaneIrony>

I think that would have it's problems.
Firstly, life is allready hard enough for newspawns...if they can't even manufacture the allready insanely expensive iron tools the players will probably lose interest in the game.

Another problem would of course be in parts where nobody is "trained" from the beginning. If everyone there would have to go through basic bone and stone projects to even get lo-tech tools they would probably all die from starvation or from animal attacks before they even got themselves organized.

[Anthony Roberts]

What are you talking about, Pirog? On the spot Programming for what? My idea has nothing to do with people sending in their wanted ideas to the staff to be implemented, so you've completly lost me on where on-the-spot programming would occour.

My idea, honestly, is a lot like Appleide's, just different.

Appledie's - Everyone has the lowest technological possibilities in their grasp. (Ie: Bone, then Stone, then Wood, etc.)

Anthony's - Everyone has the lowest technological possibilities in their grasp, based on their spawning location. (Bone, Stone, Wood are all basic, but different people start with different ones. Those that spawn in forests get wood, those that spawn in mountians get stone, etc.)

Appledie's - In order to get the next technological level, they must have created (Every?) object in the last level. They also can observe others in these higher levels to learn.

Anthony's - In order to get the next technological level, they must have researched the next step, be it by studying previously made tools to see how they can be improved (To get better tools), or by studying foreign materials to determine possible uses (Study Wood, to go 'Hey, I can make a stone hammer with a wooden handle!')

So, not much difference, honestly. However, studying in my plans would be lengthy, so that you'd have to dedicate yourself to a few activites, or branch off into a lot of activities, but not be very good at it. The basic "Jack of all trades".

The character could learn ow to make a Hall, as they research everything there is to know about stone. Or, they can keep their small stone hut, while they make low-grade Iron, and knit together a shabbly sweater.

No matter, BOTH systems here would force people to work together, which is why things in Cantr are changing, to get that aspect to become a reality.

[Nixit]

*sits back and watches everybody else do the debating*

[The Sociologist]

I half agree with Seko, here. It's a good idea, but it's a bad idea. I'd really like to see some simulated technological advancement in the forum of research. Kind of like how Sho suggested long ago. Blueprints? No... but incorporated, sure, I don't mind.

Most of Cantrian technology is at the level of oral tradition. For example bone spears, bows and the like. Exceptions are things like sportscars. You cannot just out-of-the-blue build a sportscar IRL, no matter even how skilled you are. Let alone could you lug iron and rubber to some distant forest and build one there. So there is indeed some scope for blueprints at the top "high-tech" end.

I'd like it so that each person had their own technology tree based on where they started. So, say they started somewhere with lots of stone, their technology tree would reflect that, allowing them to build stone tools as basic, then branching off into other tools as they build the first ones (Or research others by studying foreign materials) to eventually unlock all possible objects to build. Say, for example, you spawned in a forest, you'd start with wooden tools, etc. Same thing here.

Then what? The charries spawned in the hematite places are the only ones who know how to use iron? That would really lead to an orgy of killing off 9 of 10 charries under thirty. And in any case, all tools I know of that use stone also use wood, so I don't see the above working at all.

Finally, I agree with Nixit, and while InsaneIrony's ideas are not without interest, I also agree with Pirog's reservations. But as I said above, the field of what one might call "high-tech" could allow for exceptions.
.

[Pirog]

Anthony Roberts>

I think Cantr would be too slow then. It is allready a very, very large project just to make simple iron tools in many parts of the world and if they would be forced to research before constructing them a lot of people would probably give up.

[Anthony Roberts]

...
Then what? The charries spawned in the hematite places are the only ones who know how to use iron? That would really lead to an orgy of killing off 9 of 10 charries under thirty. And in any case, all tools I know of that use stone also use wood, so I don't see the above working at all.
...

No. Hematite isn't a basic material like stone or wood. Hematite would be unknown to its uses, and they'd have to study it like everyone else. Kind of like Coal, or Limestone, if people spawned with it around them, why should they have the knowledge of knowing what it is? I just mean the most basic -BUILDING- materials, such as Wood, Stone, etc.

Pirog,
Yes, that's true, but isn't Cantr supposed to be slow paced? If a character was conviently spawned, asked how to make Iron, collected all the materials and built a building then built the machines and worked on those machines and made themself Iron, how long would that take? Two months, real time? Depends really where they spawned at, and if they got help. The point being, that's not very slow. In two months, your character aged three years. So, by the age of 23, you should be able to make Iron? That seems too quick. Now, if they had to study Hematite, Coal, and Limestone, and everything in between, let's just say that each one takes 5 days, that's an extra year. So, they'll be 24 when they get Iron. Is that really any worse? An extra 20 days sitting around isn't going to kill anyone.