Rules rules rules!!!

[Vega]

Okay, guys, maybe it's just because I'm awfully hangovered, maybe it's because sun hurt my brain or maybe it's because I'm this way. But I'm quite angry now.

Edited: Okay, now cooled down... I'm going to edit all my ranting and leave just the last part...

Please, PLEASE...
More clear rules.

Rules in the wiki are NOT clear enough. And all the interpretations that are made are so hard to understand, usually...

More patience with stupid players like me, asking all the time...
If we ask it's because we want to know, not because we want to ruin your life or making your work harder.
Please?

[LittleSoul]

Could you give an example of what rules specifically it is that you think are unclear?

[Vega]

I think I can't without enter in things I'm not suposed to talk about

[SekoETC]

I agree that the rules could use updating. For example the example about an empress getting overthrown is pretty much something that is never going to happen to most characters. I think it would be useful to have examples that are more close to situations that actually tend to happen.

For example, if your character A has a map that shows the location of a resource that your other character B needs, it's not allowed to send character B into the location based on knowledge that only A has. It's also not allowed to send character B directly to character A's location to get the map. If character B ends up in character A's location, it should only be after visiting a bunch of other locations, and asking every other person they meet if they have maps or know where to find resource X. If the knowledge is not found elsewhere and B reaches the location of A, referably the map or knowledge shouldn't be passed directly from A to B but learned from a character played by someone else.

Or:

If one of your characters is in jail or ends up kidnapped by a bad guy, it's not allowed to send one of your other characters to rescue them. It's also not allowed to ask some other player to send their character to rescue said character.

[Syrech]

For me the question is: where are the rules? In the cantr wiki which is updated and administrated by players? If they are here, these rules are officials?

So, assuming that cantr wiki rules are officials, what can I do if a moderator send me a message and says to me:

Mod:"you broke a rule, you can't do that!"

Me: "Ok, you said I broke a rule, but where is it posted, I don´t see it!"

Mod: "Now it's a rule! Just don't do that in game!"

Me: "Ok, I don't do it, no problem, but maybe you will need to update the rules. And by the way, what can I do if...?"

Mod: "I said don't do that! You will be banned if you keep arguing with me!"

Me: "... yeah, ok, I won't say anything more"

And after that situation I keep thinking... "Why there isn't a link in the menu page which says "These are the rules, read it"

P.D: I'm not talking about characters of the same player, I'm talking about what you can and can't do or write in the game

P.D2: Sorry for my bad english

[Vega]

What Syrech said.

More patience with stupid players like me, asking all the time...
If we ask it's because we want to know, not because we want to ruin your life or making your work harder.

I made one question about the rules two years ago. I only had the answer some months ago. And none of the people I asked gave me an answer, I found it by casuality in the forums, when someone answered another player...

[Kendo]

For me the question is: where are the rules? In the cantr wiki which is updated and administrated by players? If they are here, these rules are officials?

So, assuming that cantr wiki rules are officials, what can I do if a moderator send me a message and says to me:

Mod:"you broke a rule, you can't do that!"

Me: "Ok, you said I broke a rule, but where is it posted, I don´t see it!"

Mod: "Now it's a rule! Just don't do that in game!"

Me: "Ok, I don't do it, no problem, but maybe you will need to update the rules. And by the way, what can I do if...?"

Mod: "I said don't do that! You will be banned if you keep arguing with me!"

Me: "... yeah, ok, I won't say anything more"

And after that situation I keep thinking... "Why there isn't a link in the menu page which says "These are the rules, read it"

P.D: I'm not talking about characters of the same player, I'm talking about what you can and can't do or write in the game

P.D2: Sorry for my bad english

what rule? the mod I sure told you. Please, tell me, what rule had you broken?

Thnxs

Ps: I'm pretty sure the mod don't talk with you thus... BTW

[Faith]

Everytime the PD contact with a player we send a link to the rules and eexplain where is the rupture. We ask to the player if he/she understands it, and if not we continue explaining until they understand or until we spend all the possible ways to make that the player understand the rule.
We explain the rules by irc too, and by some pm in the forum if it's needed.

And every player that has been contacted sometime, knows that we explain the things until the tirenest..

The rules in the wiki are the official rules, because the rules can be edited only by the admin.

The actual rules are clear, we can't put larger rules because less players would read them. Most of them are really easy (as Secho explained), and the most delicated (as the NCS) are explained in the forum.
Anyway, when a player needs an explanation we give it.

So, for the above, and for sentences like:

More patience with stupid players like me, asking all the time... If we ask it's because we want to know, not because we want to ruin your life or making your work harder.

I found this post a covered attack against the work that I and the others PD do. It could be a suggestion, but this (and specially Syrech post) is not the tone for a suggestion.

I want to point that: This is a personal opinion, I'm not representing the PD with this post, I'm talking as an individual

[Syrech]

I understand I can tell it if a GAB member ask me in the forum.

Well, one of my characters have sex with another in a public place. We play it all by whispers but I made a mistake writing and one of my dialogs go to the general chat. We explain it and keep playing the scene. After that I received a message from a mod who told me:

Mod: please read the rules, you can't rape another characters without occ content, don't do it again.

Me: It wasn't rape, it was consensual, read the dialog.

Mod: Ok, just told me you never do it again

Me: But do what? I told it wasn't a rape, or are you saying that you can't have sex in public places? Or don't play sexual scenes? I didn't read anything about that in cantr wiki

Mod: Cantr wiki can't be updated because players updated it. Please use common sense, you can't have sex in front of childrens, we have to protect the minors who play cantr.

Me: Ok, so I suggest you should make a section of rules, and talk about specific cases like that. And why if you want to play a naturist? Or something like that? And ok, we protect childrens, what about them reading how a character is murdered? Maybe you should put an advice saying: "We are not responsable about what players can wirte"

Mod: If you continue arguing you will be banned. I will be clear: You can't have sex in public, only in close buildings, and without open windows

Me: Ok.

And now that rule is anywhere. I don't break rules if they exist, but I can't know it if they aren't write somewhere.

Revision: Yes, the moderator told me to read the rules in wiki cantr, but the aren't a rule about have sex in public places in it. And when I asked why in the cantr wiki you don't tell than whispers can be randomly heared, he just said: "maybe it's not updated because there are the players who write the cantr wiki."

[Vega]

It doesn't pretend to be a covered attack. Just a petition.
And sorry, but I have to complain.
Sometimes they are not clear enough. Sometimes there is a lack of link or explanation of where to find something (as I said, it took me 2 years to find that info) and sometimes you almost need to beg or just accept without a proper answer.

Or, and yes, you can find this as a cover attack to someone's work, to finish crying as a child because of how your "case" has been managed or the answers you recieved.

Maybe is that, that I'm too stupid. As far as I know, Syrech is not crying

[Doug R.]

I found this post a covered attack against the work that I and the others PD do. It could be a suggestion, but this (and specially Syrech post) is not the tone for a suggestion.

Becoming defensive when a player asks for help and clarification doesn't really give that player evidence that their negative view is in fact mistaken.

Player: I perceive there to be a problem with this process, it needs to be changed!
Staff: There is no problem, and the way you phrased your concern I find slightly offensive.

What was solved here, except making the gulf wider? Where has customer service gone?

Just -my- opinion.

[sanchez]

The point of this thread is unclear.

The Capital Rule is simple, but can be tricky to apply in individual circumstances. When in doubt, you should always contact a current PD member. If you encounter new players who need help, please also direct them to contact current PD members.

Minors are understood to be incapable of consent. So you must never include them in such RP. Therefore, if you do not know the ages of all players around, refrain from explicit RP.

[Black Canyon]

Sanchez, I didn't hear anything about minors being involved in RP sex here, but maybe I'm missing something. It sounds like a simple mistake that could be easily remedied, and if there is now a rule against RPing sex in the presence of others (in whispers) it should be specified. I agree with Doug and I also agree that we should all be patient with newer players who do not understand our rules or "culture".

Threatening with banning at the drop of the hat is not good leadership and should be a last resort.

My opinion.

[Vega]

Maybe it's simply for you, sanchez, but I keep making wrong things or having to ask another ones after 3 (3?) years playing.
And, as I've been pointed a moment ago, there is a link to the wiki in the player's page, but not one directly to the rules. And when they are developed, as NSC, they are in the forum, (that -we- are all here, but we are not supposed to need to be here) and most of the time in English.
That make them hard to find or even inaccesible to some players.
I'm just asking for something more clear or visual or whatever. Maybe for most of you they are yet, but to me, rules of the game and forum (yes, rules of the forum too) are not so clear.

[Faith]

I found this post a covered attack against the work that I and the others PD do. It could be a suggestion, but this (and specially Syrech post) is not the tone for a suggestion.

Becoming defensive when a player asks for help and clarification doesn't really give that player evidence that their negative view is in fact mistaken.

Player: I perceive there to be a problem with this process, it needs to be changed!
Staff: There is no problem, and the way you phrased your concern I find slightly offensive.

What was solved here, except making the gulf wider? Where has customer service gone?

Just -my- opinion.

I can give my word that Syrech never was contact this way, he is telling false acusations about the PD.
I know that because, as you know, all the PD has access. But it's unfair because the other player doesn't have access and it can't be put in public.

So, it's an acusation, for that I'm in a defensive mod.