tools and economy

[kroner]

one of the main problems with cantr that most see right now is that everyone is equally able to produce the same things in the same period of time. this makes the cantr economy somewhat unrealistic and somewhat less exciting because there is little specialization of labor. one suggestion was to create a skill system. i think this is a good idea, but it will be a very big job to implement.
an idea i have to help is to have tools increase the the rate of manufacturing. right now only resource projets have optional tools that increase efficiency, but there are only required tools for manufacturing. optional tools could be expanded to manufacturing also. for example:

-a stone hammer takes 2 days with no tools
-it takes 3/4 of the time with a hammer
-it takes 1/2 of the time with a saw
-it takes 1/2 of the time with a chisel
etc.
so a hammer maker with all the necessary tools could make hammers in only 3 turns compared to the spinach farmer who only has a shovel who would have to spend 16. this would increase specialization of labor beofre there's a skill system.

edit: item deterioration is important for this otherwise the tools will become so widespread that there will be enough for everyone to make things at max efficiency. that's sort of happening already in the old locations....

[Spectrus_Wolfus]

how about making it easier to make something for the second and third time since if you've figured ut how to make a lump of stone stay on a stick oce you'll do it easier the second time and even eaiser the third time

[kroner]

well that's like the skill system people want... which is good too, but this is sort of a hold over until then and could also be used in addition.

[boomhaeur]

It would have to be based mostly on repetitive completion of the task - if it was merely tool dependant there's nothing preventing a person with the skills to churn out tools and thus equiping their citizens with the same "skill"...

[kroner]

geh... skills thread here http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=663 and here http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31. that's not the point of this thread at all... forget i even mentioned skills.

[Solfius]

agreed, tool deterioration would be of high importance. I don't think so much that effeciency of manufacturing is that important right now, but deffinately a good add on. For me deterioration would be the most important thing to put in thinking about tools.

[west]

I concur

Just to concur

and also, especially on the old islands, it's much needed.


But tools should have a few years before they even start to decay...say 5 or so.

[Pirog]

I agree with the deterioration part.

It should apply for everything, of course with the possibility to repair them.

[David]

What about stretching out the production process to encourage specialization as well, for example:

To make a hammer you need to make a stick, a hammer head (Iron or Stone), and hemp rope to lash it together. Then you have to assemble it.

This is just one example, with more complex objects the process could be much more involved. This would add some depth to the economy. That way, you may have a location with stone, but no wood. It could produce hammer heads for export to a place with wood - labor value added to the raw resources. A place with wood could make handles for trowels, shovles, pickaxes, and dung forks; whereas a place with iron would make the business end of these respective items.

[Ecilope]

It would be a very good thing to have lots of different tools, and different ways to make them. I've said elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating- societies don't travel to find the resources to make the things they need, they usually make them from resources they have ready access to.

For example, the way it works now, you have the choice to make an iron hammer or a stone hammer, depending on what's around. And there are suggestions to make needles from bone instead of iron and a file.

The quality of the item, its productivity, etc, could be increased with better materials, but not everything (in my opinion) should require iron and steel to make (like it seems everything does now).

I think it would be good to have more options.

- Becky

[Spectrus_Wolfus]

i agree with this fully.some resources in game just aren't worth gathering because there are no uses for them tht anyone can see but if we could make things from non-iron metal's i think it would shift the focus of the game away from who controll's the iron sources.oh and btw why can't we make brass to use for weapons and tools ?

[David]

I'm not advocating making the raw resources more difficult to find, or making the raw resource part harder, I want an extension of the assembly process, and adding more steps to it.

[The Hunter]

i agree with this fully.some resources in game just aren't worth gathering because there are no uses for them tht anyone can see but if we could make things from non-iron metal's i think it would shift the focus of the game away from who controll's the iron sources.oh and btw why can't we make brass to use for weapons and tools ?

Actually, I like the strive to control the resource places... Gotta love it...

[Nick]

What about stretching out the production process to encourage specialization as well, for example:

To make a hammer you need to make a stick, a hammer head (Iron or Stone), and hemp rope to lash it together. Then you have to assemble it.

This is just one example, with more complex objects the process could be much more involved. This would add some depth to the economy. That way, you may have a location with stone, but no wood. It could produce hammer heads for export to a place with wood - labor value added to the raw resources. A place with wood could make handles for trowels, shovles, pickaxes, and dung forks; whereas a place with iron would make the business end of these respective items.

I have thought of that, never thought to mention it. All parts should be able to be manufactured separately, which would make it easier to make items out of different materials. Instead of having 100 different types of hammers, you could have a few different types of heads, handles, and ways to secure it, and after you could fasten them together.

Degredation is something that needs to be implemented, or I fail to see the use of any of the weak metals we find in the ground. For instance, the egyptians used bronze tools, the strongest they knew of at the time (until they found the black rock... a little tidbit of info thats what mason is based on). They had to repair the tools every few minutes. Of course, when they found iron, it was great because they rarely had to repair the tools, at least not as much as with copper. Of course, it woudl have been much more expensive to use iron. In Cantr terms, think of it as how many iron trowels have you seen... rather than trowels with wood. And how many real hammers have you seen, rather than stone hammers?

[new.vogue.nightmare]

I once saw a real hammer in Naron