"Find out in game" rule change

[kinvoya]

Yet, there shoudl still be a mention on the loom page on how to weave cotton, as well as how to weave hemp, etc.

Rather than repeating info why not just a link to it? I'm all for things only being detailed once to keep the content from becoming overwhelming and redundant. And thanks, Nick and west, for taking on the organizing. It sounds like you're doing a fine job.

[Nick]

Well because some people might be interested in looms, because they're considering building one, yet others might be interested in cotton, because it's a local resource.

[The Sociologist]

I've only just found this thread and must say I'm quite startled. I would not have thought that information about machines and resources was the big deal. Not that I mind all that much one way or the other.

However, what is really critical is much more info about the skills and combat systems. There have been all manner of rumors and people getting confused and therefore upset. For example, do combat skills really decline with non-use? This was denied in one post but yet rumored in other places. And are some weapons really better for some characters more than others? How does this "strength" concept affect weapons use, if at all. Does "practising" combat work as well when hitting at 1% of strength? And so on.

In other words, it's the mechanics that need to be divulged, not necessarily individual database details about particular tools, weapons or resources.

I'd really really like to know by what infinitesimal fraction of a percent my hunting skill is supposed to rise every time I hit an animal. At least that way we can test the system for bugs.

[wichita]

I just felt this discussion in General Support should be referenced here as well for the sake of completeness. I think it was more worthwhile discussion about what the Wikki should include in spirit.

http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5493&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[formerly known as hf]

thanks for that link wich - was about to do that meself

and nick and west - thanks. I know Jos has suggested before that myself and sarah might be involved in wiki editing, as editors of the 'zine - but I don't think either of us have the time...

The wiki is in the early stages - I guess the great thing about it is that it can grow and be guided by anyone - we don't need to set an 'overall' or overarching structure right now - we should just see what happens - and if anyone dislikes the organisation, either re-organinse it yourself, or make your criticisms known - there's loads of time and room for change.

[SekoETC]

I was thinking, even though we're not allowed to say location names, how about saying general stuff like stone is found on mountains or that food is more likely be found in fields and hills than forests and swamps?

[wichita]

I think that should be a reasonable thing to post as a game hint, tactic, whatever you want to call it. That is a standard strategy I follow trying to wander to find things when I don't have a map.

[KVZ]

Some chars just talking in the game sometime something like this

I read in Great-Wiki-Tome that something, bla bla bla [quote from wiki] bla bla bla

etc...

I think that usage of OOC knowledge in this way IC is not allowed... Bacause "Wiki" is OOC, and char should don't know about it... I wonder when some chars just stert to copy whole wiki into the game makinkg notes... What to say to players like this one? It is bad, because I see more, and more chars starting to talk this way... And my personal suggestion is that even if player knows something from Wiki, then he/she should try to simulate that char will not know everything and try to find out in the game... Game was more fun before...

[kinvoya]

The characters should always stay in character and the wiki doesn not exist in the cantr world. If they quote from it they are not staying in character.

I know it's hard to get some players to understand this. I've had players insist that I, personally, appologize to them, personally, because of something my char said that hurt their feelings and I'm like, WTF, dude? My char said that to your char, leave me alone. I've also seen chars insist on quoting from the bible and spreading the word of Jesus because they feel they are obligated to do so even though it is out of character.

Usually I have to get very threatening in OOC whispers and tell them to stop it and stay in character or I will report them and they will possibly be kicked out of the game. I only do this if they continue over and over to speak out of character. Nothing else seems to work.

They should also be reported to the PD. Aren't you PD, now? Can't you lock their account as a punishment or something?

I bet you feel really overwhelmed dealing with all those players. Some of them must speak English though. You should get help from the other PD members.

[KVZ]

Someone asked them to stop IC by the way, but... I hope that they will stop, I will write on Polish forum in topic about wiki, that it is not allowed, and even I will write it in Polish version of Wiki... (maybe in English version too). Maybe then they will understand. Some of them just think, that Book of Wiki is in their chars heads and they can use it without any limit...

I don't have full PD privileges yet. So, I can't do many things which you suggested... And other PD members are in lack of time actually Well, I can make cases for those players, but I'm not sure if other PD members will have time actually to help with those people.

[Jos Elkink]

Sounds like a good strategy, KeVes. And other than that, you could ask another PD member to give you the email address of that player and then write a little email that he should not play like that, that he misunderstands the game.

Mind you, it's really understandable that people do this, because in by far most online roleplaying games, it IS normal to talk from the perspective of the player rather than the character. I played Entropia for example, and if you would meet people, they would ask how you're doing, how long you've been playing, etc. Which is really normal conversation.

But in Cantr it should be avoided as much as possible because it totally ruins the fun ...

[KVZ]

But I'm confused in which way chars can use OOC knowledge from wiki? It is allowed after this policy change, right? So, eg. chars can know that sloop is faster than longboat, even until they will build both of them and test their speed? But they don't know exact numbers? Or... They should improvise, or make supposes, or know something roughly?

EDIT: I don't know if someone explained it in this topic, but it is 7 pages to read...

[kinvoya]

I still play that my char only knows what she has encountered. Thus, if she hasn't been on both a sloop and a longboat or talked to people about their relative speeds she would not have knowledge of this.

Now if she goes to build a boat I assume she knows what kind of boat she wants. She will know what materials to gather for the boat she wants because she wants that particular kind of boat. So for example, my character wants to explore the world so she wants a fast boat but she doesn't need to carry a lot of passengers or cargo so she's going to build that kind of boat which turns out to be a sloop. She knows she needs 14,000g of wood and 200g of iron and a hammer because she is (in effect) designing and building the boat she wants. Not because she read about it in wiki.

I personally think she should have a pretty good but not exact idea of what the boat can hold unless she personally fills it up and counts the grams or if someone else tells her. She could then ask that person how they know the capacity. If he says he read the wiki I would then have an OOC conversation explaining that the wiki doesn't exist in the Cantr world.

Since she's smart I give her this ability to reason out her needs. I can do that now because I have read about the boats in wiki.

If she were a kind of stupid girl she might build a dinghy and think she could sail it around the world...and maybe she could, very, very slowly if she got lucky and had some high energy food. I don't know.

One of my chars spent years building a boat on what she thought was the sea but it turned out to be a lake. This was my mistake but turned out to be a part of her naive, backwoods personality.

I think that one thing that's important to convey to the players is that their characters have real personalities. Some of them might not be very smart and sophisticated so they shouldn't have the abilities or knowledge that other characters might have.

The fact that the wiki exists does not mean that every character knows everything in it. It is a tool to help the players create their character's lives. That's all.

[KVZ]

The fact that the wiki exists does not mean that every character knows everything in it. It is a tool to help the players create their character's lives.

Good quote Can I add it to both versions of Wiki? And I would extend it with statement about that wiki is OOC, so chars can't tell that they know something from it or quote from it.

[kinvoya]

Sure use what ever you want. I only get mad if someone says I said something that I didn't say.