Armour and weapons

[Solfius]

daggers already do less damage than other weapons, right?

So if armour were to block a set amount of damage, possibly modified by some kind of damage type, then the dagger could easily be made ineffective against plate armour if that was desired

[shapukas]

agree i do

[Doug R.]

I think it's safe to say that armor of any kind will never be implemented, since it will just make old characters invincible. Trying to balance it by messing with other things will just make a bigger mess.

[Solfius]

I think it's safe to say that armor of any kind will never be implemented, since it will just make old characters invincible. Trying to balance it by messing with other things will just make a bigger mess.

hence what I said elsewhere: The combat system should be overhauled before armour is implemented. properly balancing something that is constantly being tweaked and added to is impossible in my opinion, you need to know what you want to end up with before you can balance things out

[Nakranoth]

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/EDSmail1.jpg

Chain-mail on left, historically innaccurate chain-mail on right, ring-mail on bottom.

The very small mesh of chain-mail was speciffically designed to stop arrows. It functioned very much like modern day kevlar. An arrow wouldn't pierce through the chain because it bends and distributes force. In perfect condition, it effectively would change blows into just the force behind it, assuming it wasn't a thrusted sword, which by the way, will pierce kevlar too.

Ring mail, on the other hand, with it's thicker loops, serves better against sword slashes without getting damaged, but not so well against smaller pointed projectiles.

I happen to know my medieval techs pretty well... and all sorts of weapons were designed specifically for cracking open plate... and for dis-mounting knights... pikes could dismount, but rarely broke through due to the curveature of well-made armors. Haliberds and guisarme hooks, on the other hand, were bot polearms designed specifically for both dismounting and finishing off knights...

Slingshots, while not very potent, are undoubtedly piercing weapons... any damage done by it is done because the bullet pierces the skin.

[Gran]

Such combat sistem would be cool, I have to agree, but the intligente resources neeeds for programing it make it very difficult to be created.Polearm Weaponry, Pikes, Spears, Rapiers, Diffrenet Shaped Arrows, Bows, Plate,Chain,Ring Mail, these are stuff that are difficult to make.If we make these changes, so well we need to change the capacity of fortification, as such weaponry was designed for non-mobile battles, around fortress.I think that doesn't applies so much to developed locations where war became more mobile.

[shapukas]

2 Nakranoth

Ring mail is simplyfide moders chainmails for reenactors. Would you like to spend lots of mone for riveted chainmail jus for bughurts? Where your presiose mails would be damadged? Ofcourse not. Historicaly ring mails never egsisted. If did, give me a proof. Archiological or eany other. But not the wiki. Chain mails never acted like kevlar. And do not mistake. If you fire whith wide arows then maby chain will stop them, but mostly were used narrow arows to pierce chainmail through. Whay do you think plate mails evolved? Becouse chainmails became so heavy to proteckt against piercing. So platemails were lighter then chainmails and gaved more protection.

[Nakranoth]

Alright, Ill give it to you that properly made mails were never what I always thought of as "ring-mail" and after doing quite a bit more looking around... your average mail wouldn't stop arrows used by people of the same time period, as broad-headed arrows became more narrow to pop the rings. However, there have been some documented cases of mails well made enough for arrows to have no real effect on.
Also, a couple side-notes...
Well made mails could reduce the amount of impact of a bludgening weapon a decent bit more then people give it credit for... the mass of semi-soft metals used in mails absorbing impact...
Mail was used by the romans because of its ease to repair and its ability to properly fit more then one specific person (as in, it didn't need to be customly made per person). On a down note, it's large surface area ment that it rusted more readily then plate armors... this means high deter and repair rates on these... and maybe only being able to wear plate that you made (initiated the project of).

[Matix]

I think it's safe to say that armor of any kind will never be implemented, since it will just make old characters invincible. Trying to balance it by messing with other things will just make a bigger mess.

I think armors shouldn't give any protection and it'll looks like clothes. Thr reason is easy - implementing extra protection needs many changes in fight system.
On the other hand that can blocked any more changes in fight system.

But i think this system is good. New clothes can give some extra fun.

[shapukas]

... However, there have been some documented cases of mails well made enough for arrows to have no real effect on.

Coud you give me some evidance? Some links to those documents or maby titels of those books?

[Matix]

... However, there have been some documented cases of mails well made enough for arrows to have no real effect on.

It's lie. Longbows that have power after 80 pounds can throw arrows that make a holes in full plate mails, especially when they have power near 120 pounds, but it isn't easy to shot when you don't have enough streight. Next thing is that we can find many kinds of arrows - iron, wooden or sporting aluminium arrows. They have many specific effects. Wooden arrows many times broke when they push aim. Aluminium arrows can fly to longer distance and iron arrows can make a hole in plate mails. It's very easy

[Nakranoth]

http://www.capnmac.com/archery/maille/Chapter4.htm

This guy has done a decent bit of looking into the matter... on September 1, 1191 there was an isolated, documented instance of mail protecting from arrows.

Again... in Most cases, yes, arrows win out... I'm just saying that it has been known to happen...

[shapukas]

oh, ok. Now i get it. But such an armour would be very heavy. Thats why platemail emerged. Cos those where lighter and more protective. speaking about ordinary worriors chainmails wouldnt stom arows. Eanywhay ia think we went too far for now

[Sicofonte]

Very heavy, or really well made.

(sorry about my lack of vocabulary and documentation)

The common "well"-made Roman chainmails were riveted: the opened rings (half of the total rings, made of iron wire coiled around a bar; the others are stell rings cutted from a metal sheets or plates) where closed by "flattening" the two ends together.

The "really-well"-made chainmails were welded: the opened rings are secured by welding its two ends.


The "not-so-well"-made chainmails that are just closed but not secured in any form (either riveted nor welded) shall exists only for ornamental use.


Aspects that influence the resistance of the chainmails:

- The diameter of the rings, their thickness, and the relation between them.
- The quality of the metal used.
- The quality/completeness of the rivetting/welding.
- The quality of the design (patterns of ring binding/fastening).

When aiming at really good chainmails, the armourer could be working years and years for just one chainmail. But kings can pay that.

[shapukas]

No, there was no nonriveted or nonwelded mails. Not riveted mails were just modern mails to siplyfy the reanactors works. You wouldnt want to spend 1000 to 10000 let ssay dolars for chainmails and use in fighting.

Further more. rings was never made of steel plates. It was flatened riveted or welded rings. Such flated rings was stronger then ordinary riveted or welded ring.

Paterns. What do you know about chainmail paterns? Real historikal paterns are 4 in 1 and 6 in 1 The moste comon is 4in1. 6in1 where made maby just for wery important persons and so not so very egsamples have reached our days. All other paterns lik dragonscales or something like that is jus fantasy stile. Ofcours there is some evidance (in songs, in cultural songs) when worriors put couple of chainmails on them, but still not prooven by other documents.

So for cantr we have only 4in1 patern.

So as i sed, there are two chainmail damadge resistance factors:
wheight (depending on size and thiknes of rings), and work of true master.