Reclassify 'Storage space' and 'People space' in buildings

[Piscator]

So, why have a 10 seconds limit then? If you can stay indefinitely under certain circumstances and you are theoretically also able to run in twenty times in a row, having a time limit seems like a completely unnecessary complication. If it's just about not being able to work on projects then it could be implemented in a much more straightforward way. Just disallow joining/making progress on projects if the weight limit is exceeded.

As for barricading, this definitely should be possibly due to a designed mechanic and not as a by-product of a completely unrelated one.

[Snake_byte]

Yes, but the current system isn't barricading at all. It is just a word we are using to describe a bug or system flaw

Yeah, we don't want to get rid of it.
It really is more of a strategy than a bug, kind of like being able to drag yourself...

That's not barricading, that's filling up a building with objects so you can't get in. Barricading involves blocking unlocked usage of the door, by actually propping an object against the door. We need to revisit it with a fresh approach. An example is PEOPLE actually blocking the door.

So it's okay to pack a shack full of people but not resources, which you need more of to accomplish?

Personally I've never, ever come across an issue with barricading. I have discussed it with another character, and dismissed it (because OOCly I think it's cheating and unfair).

I have, only, had it happen -to- one of my charries and I have no problems with it. In fact I thought it was pretty resourceful. Though we didn't manage to fit in carrying nothing and drag something out, but it was very close. With the current system, they -could- pack a room so much that no one will ever get in again, so if you can remove your gear, and 'squeeze' in the door every time, then you can take stuff out to fit more stuff in.

There are no mechanisms in that suggestion to kick people out, despite your support for an unrealistic approach.

I've never been kicked out of a room, by the room before... Unless that's where the old saying ' don't let the door hit you on the way out ' came from...

[Doug R.]

Time limits are completely artificial and silly.

Returner, that aspect of your suggestion is rejected, so think of something else.

[returner]

So, why have a 10 seconds limit then? If you can stay indefinitely under certain circumstances and you are theoretically also able to run in twenty times in a row, having a time limit seems like a completely unnecessary complication. If it's just about not being able to work on projects then it could be implemented in a much more straightforward way. Just disallow joining/making progress on projects if the weight limit is exceeded.

As for barricading, this definitely should be possibly due to a designed mechanic and not as a by-product of a completely unrelated one.

Agreed. Also, your final sentence is worded very well, that's exactly my ambition when posting suggestions here.

Your alternative was that any number of people can enter the building, but cannot work on anything, yes? If that's the alternative, that's reasonable too.

I just had a brainwave though..

What if, (and this needs clarification) the building is full.. 30/30.. then one more enters, and one person is kicked out? Logically that makes sense but is certainly abuseable.. thoughts?

[Snake_byte]

Personally I like the 'you cannot enter there is too much weight inside' and 'person capacity is full' stuff. That makes sense to me.

Keep it the way it is... If there are too many people, one needs to die, or leave the room.

[returner]

Okay! Brainwave!

This is the easiest solution, and doesn't require a big overhaul.

Make a 'queue' outside a building!

Once a person exits, the next person enters! (automatically, so that people can't exit, hit someone, and re-enter quickly).

This removes the huge advantage from those who abuse the system through cheating/barricading.

Dead simple, and it is just a project.

'Sorry, this room is full. Would you like to join the queue to enter at the next available opportunity?' Or something, with a 'continue' or 'cancel' button.

[Doug R.]

This would eliminate barricades being used offensively, which is the problem I'd like to see fixed, and it could be counter-acted if the exiting character had enough friends inside and awake to instantly kill anyone that may enter the building when the exiting character leaves. The only problem with it is the evil A word - Automation, but the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks.

[AlchemicRaker]

This would eliminate barricades being used offensively, which is the problem I'd like to see fixed, and it could be counter-acted if the exiting character had enough friends inside and awake to instantly kill anyone that may enter the building when the exiting character leaves. The only problem with it is the evil A word - Automation, but the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks.

Agreed, I like the entry queue... I don't think the Automation is a problem... after all... dragging works in a similar way, doesn't it? That the person who starts the project (entering the building / starting to drag) finishes the project based on some other "automated" trigger.

- Natso

[Piscator]

Since the dead only very rarely walk around, this idea would only solve half of the problem. Dead bodies would still cause building blocks.

[returner]

Since the dead only very rarely walk around, this idea would only solve half of the problem. Dead bodies would still cause building blocks.

This is in combination with the previously agreed suggestion; that People and Storage are different entities and neither regulate each other. So, predating this post, if the idea was only half-solved, consider it now fully solved.

This would eliminate barricades being used offensively, which is the problem I'd like to see fixed, and it could be counter-acted if the exiting character had enough friends inside and awake to instantly kill anyone that may enter the building when the exiting character leaves. The only problem with it is the evil A word - Automation, but the benefits may outweigh the drawbacks.

Agreed, I like the entry queue... I don't think the Automation is a problem... after all... dragging works in a similar way, doesn't it? That the person who starts the project (entering the building / starting to drag) finishes the project based on some other "automated" trigger.

- Natso

Exactly what Natso said, it's only very light automation.. You have to have a degree of automation anyway - characters automatically harvest, build, walk on roads.. they don't require constant input, or constant clicking on a button to 'continue' the project.
Any (currently conceivable) alternative to accepting the 'queue' idea and removing the 'automation' element of it would be ugly, delayed and certainly not aesthetic.

[Snake_byte]

So you're basically talking about a project to enter a full building?

[Doug R.]

Since the dead only very rarely walk around, this idea would only solve half of the problem. Dead bodies would still cause building blocks.

Not if dead bodies don't count towards building capacity, as returner said.

@Natso - that's how you convince me!

So here's what we have so far:

-Separate people capacity from weight capacity.
-People weight still counts towards weight for room
-If weight capacity is exceeded, then you can't do anything except talk and drag.
-If person capacity is exceeded, you can queue up to enter the building when someone exits, but otherwise you're blocked out.

That's really all we need, right?

[Piscator]

I wasn't aware that this was meant as an addition. I still think it might be more wise to get rid of the personal limit entirely, especially since a person would still contribute to the total weight.

[Doug R.]

I wasn't aware that this was meant as an addition. I still think it might be more wise to get rid of the personal limit entirely, especially since a person would still contribute to the total weight.

No, I don't like that idea at all, because then we would lose barricading entirely and wind up with silliness like piling 50 people on a tandem for shits and giggles (or more sinister reasons I haven't thought of yet).

[Piscator]

As long as you wouldn't be able to move the bike, what would it matter? And the person limit as base of a barricading mechanic is completely unsuitable anyway. Does it make sense that you can barricade a shack with 3 people, but need 60 to barricade a hall? I think not. Barricades as a kind of improvised lock have much more potential IMO.