Families; revisted and simplified

[SekoETC]

Correction: Everyone OOC knows it's random. Cantrians would be like "Oh my Jos, that newspawn looks just like you! What is this witchcraft? It must be a new kind of illness... Zomg clones!! Lets kill them!"

[Nick]

Correction: Everyone OOC knows it's random. Cantrians would be like "Oh my Jos, that newspawn looks just like you! What is this witchcraft? It must be a new kind of illness... Zomg clones!! Lets kill them!"

How long do you think people will have that big of a reaction when a newspawn is born?

And besides, it is OOC knowledge that is shared; we know the gene thing IC, theoretically. If it's in the wiki, we know it in game.

[The Sociologist]

They are not a mother and father. They're something else. They're gene sources, nothing more.

In most of the natural world mothers and fathers are primarily gene sources. All the rest of the baggage comes with a handful of nurturing mammals and then with a few large-brained primates like ourselves, where you get the possibility of cultural variation. But even with us, parenting is principally about genetic attachment.

These concepts are very very close. So much so that once you introduce the one, I doubt if it will ever make sense to introduce the other without huge confusion arising.

In other words, once this is introduced, it will become what Cantrians mean by "family", "parents", "children" and whatnot.

[BarbaricAvatar]

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[sem]

One obvious question:

Would the newspawn project be manual or automatic? If manual the parents can do nothing else while working on it; if automatic either or both initiators could leave town (or die) before it completes. How long does the project hang around in such a case?

It's not an altogether silly suggestion, but it's certainly not fully thought out. The original suggestion had the virtue of relative simplicity. The objections to it are mainly political rather than technical (which is not to say that they're necessarily invalid - the fact that it's easy to do something doesn't mean it should be done).

[BarbaricAvatar]

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[DylPickle]

I find it so sad that people are running around overkilling a very simple and effective way of fixing something that has been lacking in game.

STOP mentioning the words "parent, mom, dad, sex" and concentrate more on "FAMILIES, BROTHERS, SISTERS, UNCLES" .... Even clones, for christs sake.
NOT parents. Unless a society in-game decides upon using the word.


A Character spawns, and the game tells everyone "You see <blank> whom you've never seen before, with generic traits of <blank> and <blank>"

Genetic "relations" can be male or female, in any of the four possible combinations. Male and female characters exist because it's easier to visualise it that way. If spawning has to come from a male and a female, then we shouldn't be allowed to choose what gender we spawn as.

Please.. PLEASEremember that this is, afterall, an online game, before running down a great suggestion.
I have enough trouble trying to manage towns, get stuff done, and create my character's personal identity in game, and I'd like to not be bothered with waiting lists, towns not spawning because people aren't playing characters of a certain gender, playing as a baby when I want a new character....

I'm sorry, but those notions may seem like great ideas to some people, but seriously.. It will destroy the game. When innovative new players stumble across cantr, do you think they're really going to want to play a baby? No. They're going to say "Fuck this" and they won't come back. Babies will become bigger hassles than repairs were before they were fixed. And don't say new players would have the option of just spawning as a twenty year old or as a baby.. It's one way or the other, and the baby idea doesn't work.

A Character spawns, and the game tells everyone "You see <blank> whom you've never seen before, with generic traits of <blank> and <blank>"

It can be played out in whatever way the characters want, and it can be ignored just as easily. It would give us something fun to play around with in game... Isn't time for a little more fun?

[Nick]

Exactly, DylPickle.

Stop making other baby suggestions, please.
The main goal for this is to be a simple solution that still affords the benefits that bloodlines give.

[BarbaricAvatar]

ok

[Missy]

STOP mentioning the words "parent, mom, dad, sex" and concentrate more on "FAMILIES, BROTHERS, SISTERS, UNCLES" .... Even clones, for christs sake.
NOT parents. Unless a society in-game decides upon using the word.



I'm sorry, but those notions may seem like great ideas to some people, but seriously.. It will destroy the game. When innovative new players stumble across cantr, do you think they're really going to want to play a baby? No. They're going to say "Fuck this" and they won't come back. Babies will become bigger hassles than repairs were before they were fixed. And don't say new players would have the option of just spawning as a twenty year old or as a baby.. It's one way or the other, and the baby idea doesn't work.

Firstly, Mom and Dad are neccessary. If it's just generating traits and genes, it's not the same feel and it never will be. It's like Seko's one post many moons ago, that there's a certain bonding amongst parents and children. Being spawners of spawns that are twenty years old, doesn't solve that problem.

Part of the reasoning for wanting children IS to strengthen bonds amongst characters. Spawning them won't do that for me. (Maybe I'm just stuck in the real world, I don't know.)

Secondly, DO not say that people would run away from playing the game and that many players wouldn't jump at the chance to play one, because there are many players who have been here and left and who have WAITED only for the chance to see them come along. There was a chick on staff who wanted terribly to have children implemented and joined staff simply to try and help get them implmented but things went to a stand-still and she ended up leaving.


Others who wanted them so terribly that when they were told they couldn't RP them, they gave up playing. And I can also tell you that there's probably a flock of people that would simply PLAY CANTR because you could play babies. (Maybe a majority of them don't exist now, but think of all the people who start playing and they play a stupid retard char right from the go of their account. There is a group of people out there that this would no doubt appeal to. )



Maybe it was a mistake of people to tell us "It's approved and we just have to figure out how to implement it."

I've been waiting for them for as long as I can remember and I just get so fucked off that some people want to go and bitch about them now. Okay so I lose the battle for the one thing I've ever fought so hard to have in cantr.


I'm also against the idea because if you force people to be generators of spawns it takes away the ability for them to decide they want to "make" one out of love, make one because it's the right thing to do for a woman to just have babies, make one because their population is low, make one because they need an heir.
I can live with the fact that this player base has changed so much I'll probably never see babies and only spawn generated new-spawns, but what I won't ever agree to is that people lose the choice/ability to create another person on their own. If it's an automatic thing done through programming, it's not even worth implementing to me.

EDIT Add to that- I don't want some thirty five people spawning in town who all look like my char and my char's wife or my char and some char that isn't my chars wife. The day that happens is the day I say adios. My char's male and it has a twig n' berries. Get over it.

[Surly]

And people think I'm opinionated...

[notsure]

Missy, I think I love you!!!!

Missy said: Part of the reasoning for wanting children IS to strengthen bonds amongst characters... I'm also against the idea because if you force people to be generators of spawns it takes away the ability for them to decide they want to "make" one out of love, make one because it's the right thing to do for a woman to just have babies, make one because their population is low, make one because they need an heir.

notsure

[DylPickle]

Secondly, DO not say that people would run away from playing the game and that many players wouldn't jump at the chance to play one, because there are many players who have been here and left and who have WAITED only for the chance to see them come along. There was a chick on staff who wanted terribly to have children implemented and joined staff simply to try and help get them implmented but things went to a stand-still and she ended up leaving.


Others who wanted them so terribly that when they were told they couldn't RP them, they gave up playing. And I can also tell you that there's probably a flock of people that would simply PLAY CANTR because you could play babies. (Maybe a majority of them don't exist now, but think of all the people who start playing and they play a stupid retard char right from the go of their account. There is a group of people out there that this would no doubt appeal to. )

Some people love making human sacrifices too.
Others like eating people.
And others like to scuffle around under the sheets with blood relations.


My point? Most don't. I'd say the ratio would be 5 players leaving, for every 1 new player gained. It'd be worse than Canada's birth rate.

But even if there are to be babies in the future, why is that stopping this suggestion from being implemented now, while the whole "baby" thing gets sorted out? It would be a piece of cake to do. There had to be telegrams before there were phones. I think it'd be better to have have this now, see how it works, and then maybe consider having a midget newspawn plop out from a fat woman's belly.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I don't think that many would leave, if it were optional. And if this form were implemented, I would want it to be optional as well. I don't want to know what new chars have my chars genes. At least I wouldn't for most of mine.

[sanchez]

I'm gonna repeat myself that if you just know one parent, you avoid all the relationship and gender issues. I also think it should be voluntary whether you let your contributions be known.