A Small Bit of Cantr Ethics

[The Industriallist]

@TLHE:

Your question would depend on the player, some of us, like me, wouldn't give a damn, others, however, could look to mount your head on the wall. I would say, either contact the player, or use it and make it unrecognizable as coming from the source it came from.

So, I would say that answer is absolutely wrong. If it's in character to rip the map off in character (and it probably is), do it. Any OOC issues that may result should directly lead to a severe verbal beating of the idiot who thinks that IC maybe-crimes are any sort of excuse for bothering the player of the offending character.

[Sho]

Agreed. We don't ask permission of someone to kill their character, thereby nullifying the significant amount of effort and emotion they put into that character. This should be no different. If someone puts their work in the Cantr world, they should understand that its treatment there is out of their hands.
As long as it's my character doing something and not me doing it through my character, and it's done to someone else's character and not their player through that character, "my character did it" is morally speaking a perfectly sound defense.

[Jos Elkink]

Exactly - I fully agree with the above points. If you steal from a fellow char, that player might be annoyed, but alas, that's Cantr ... OOC rules do not simply apply IC. The only complications arise when using OOC material IC (CRB + plagiarism) or IC material OOC (plagiarism).

[ephiroll]

@TLHE:

Your question would depend on the player, some of us, like me, wouldn't give a damn, others, however, could look to mount your head on the wall. I would say, either contact the player, or use it and make it unrecognizable as coming from the source it came from.

So, I would say that answer is absolutely wrong. If it's in character to rip the map off in character (and it probably is), do it. Any OOC issues that may result should directly lead to a severe verbal beating of the idiot who thinks that IC maybe-crimes are any sort of excuse for bothering the player of the offending character.

It would be wrong, if not for that you seem to be misreading righteously as rightly.

... so... if this had been done with your work, visual mapping actually being a bit more work than textual, would you be <b>righteously</b> pissed off OOC?

Righteously is dealing with morals, and anyone who has something stolen, has the moral right to be POed about it if they choose to do so. This in no way means that they are correct and proper in being POed about it, as you are implying that I mean. I think there's already a general consensus that it wouldn't be proper, however, the moral outlook of the situation would depend solely on the player.

TLHE could also be using the word 'righteously' to mean "to a great extent", in which case it would also depend on the player.

[Nick]

Exactly - I fully agree with the above points. If you steal from a fellow char, that player might be annoyed, but alas, that's Cantr ... OOC rules do not simply apply IC. The only complications arise when using OOC material IC (CRB + plagiarism) or IC material OOC (plagiarism).

Maybe write some sort of disclaimer making all in game notes property of Cantr, or something like that?

[Jos Elkink]

Maybe write some sort of disclaimer making all in game notes property of Cantr, or something like that?

Well, I kind of agree with those who suggested that also Cantr admins should not be allowed to publish in-game publications without permission from the author. So it would be slightly more complicated than that ...

I'm not brilliant at doing this stuff. If you guys want to work out some kind of disclaimer here that can be discussed and amended, I'm all for it. Once I'm happy with it, I'll submit it to the GAC.

[Cdls]

How about:
*Due to the nature of the game, all materials created in game become property of Cantr. Written material are not subject to copyright and ownership from player is transferred to the game.

It can be worked on but something basic like that should work

[nitefyre]

How about:
*Due to the nature of the game, all materials created in game become property of Cantr. Written material are not subject to copyright and ownership from player is transferred to the game.

It can be worked on but something basic like that should work

Considering the contempt towards Cantr getting the rights completely to republish materials without a word from the author, I guess it'll have to be something more along the lines of:

Due to the nature of Cantr, materials are not subject to real life ownership and copyright conventions, once submitted into the game.

[Jos Elkink]

I think it's too complicated an issue for a one-liner ... Try to write down a proper statement / explanation without loopholes

[Cdls]

*sigh* Ill be back with a twenty page disclaimer for you then

[Cdls]

Okay..not exactly the twenty pages I claimed to bring..but hows this:



Due to the nature of the game (Cantr) all materials made by a character under your control ceases all real world ownership by player upon creation of material. This includes, but is not limited to written and visual works made in game. All ownership rights are transferred immediately to the game.


Okay..now you can attach this to the login screen as well as post it as part of signing up. For the login screen, you should have one of those check boxes that you click to agree, and when that is done, they should be allowed to sign in. I don't know how hard it is to program something like that, its just an idea, and keeps people from saying that they didn't know about it. Also, below are some suggestions for additions to the above disclaimer:

*All material in game can be used by all players, however material cannot be used outside of game without players permission Example: Character A makes a map and Character B comes along and finds it in game. Character B, in game can use that map but cannot use it outside of the game without Character A players consent. On the other hand Character B can use that map for any purpose in game without permission from Character A's player.

Definitions:
Player-The real world person playing Cantr
Character- Someone controlled by the Player
Cantr-The game that is played
Material- All works that are made by a character, including but not limited to written and visual works

[Wolf]

Cdls:
You're definitely on to something there, if such a thing is needed.
(and no, I'm not using "if" as in "it's not needed", I'm using "if" as in, "what the heck do I know about it - this is something that's about policies, and as such is not my cup of tea!")
I do, however, have one suggestion that might be useful, too....
Maybe there could be some kind of addition that someone could still create stuff, without having it published, on the basis that he/she specifically clarifies that he/she rather keeps a certain piece of work as his/her own?
For example, when making a map, or writing poetry... just like the character could add his name, that there could be a certain tag added which could be done in a style that it's still following the nature of the game, ic, but that people (in this case, the staff of Cantr) would be able to tell that it's got that tag, so the player doesn't want it to be used out-of-game?
Of course, it would have to be made real clear that adding this tag is the player's responsibility, if he/she wants to make use of that option.

My own (personal) view on it, is simple:
I play Cantr.
My chars exist on the servers and in the world of Cantr.
Whatever my chars create, exists in Cantr.
If administration has the right to hurl characters into the great nothing, because a player messes up, or because of technical issues, then the use of those things that a character does or creates, on those servers, in the world of Cantr, sort of speaks for itself.
The world would have been a weird place if the builders of the Eiffeltower and the Statue of Liberty had to fuss over such issues with the people who created the rivets used in those works, and in a same way a player creates a character on Cantr... if the administration has to fuss over every little thing, then the game would not have gotten past the stage of a concept for a long time.
But as said, that is my personal view on it... and because I can see how other people might see it different, I figured maybe the stuff written before my personal view would be useful, even if just to add a concept.

[Cdls]

I see what you are getting at but to make this work and make it completely clear to everyone, it should remain the same. Jos wanted something with no loopholes and all that and to let someone bring "tags" in would provide a loophole for that, not to mention others can just add their own tags to something else and claim it as their own. I think it should stand as is

[Racetyme]

Sorry guys, it's not that simple. You can't just say real world laws don't exist because it is a game, laws exist regardless of whether or not it is a game. Someone needs to go do some serious copyright and intellectual property ownership research.

[Cdls]

I figured that, thats why I have submitted it to a couple people that are more knowing about these legal matters, as well as a few legal forums. I hope to hear back from all them soon.