Radio discussion (split from:Cantr Vent)

[madfish]

What is rarer is being able to recognise someone you have only ever heard and never seen, by their voice alone. Its completely unrealistic. I'd go with EchoMan's idea to submit the radio id long before that. Despite your idea to make it into a greasemonkey spam filter.

That is not what I said at all. I said it is rare that people would be able to believably impersonate someone that you know. They are related, but not the same thing. Also, I am not suggesting that you be able to match people in-person to their radio voices. I am suggesting you be able to differentiate between voices on the radio.

And I was saying it is hard to recognise someone you have only ever heard before. It was what I said in my original statement which you responded to. I don't see where I am stating that you said something which you did not.

And the bottom line is, I would really love an explanation from you of how it is any less realistic than being able to recall the name of someone you met just briefly 80 years ago, as can be done will the current dynamic naming system.

Just because something else in the game is also unrealistic doesn't make this any more viable an option. Nobody is proposing we give characters superpowers on the basis that it is no more unrealistic than them currently being able to carry the equipment needed to build a hall. And I find it hard to understand why you don't consider facial recognition easier than voice recognition.

You're also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good a little, I think. As I said, it is also unrealistic that you can't differentiate between speakers on the radio, recognize someone you speak to almost every day, or even tell if a voice is male or female. I think these are more disruptively unrealistic than your objection. I'm also not impressed by realism arguments alone. The game will never be realistic. We should approximate reality within reason while keeping play-ability and the prevention of exploits in mind.

I agree differentiation between male and female voices would be a good implementation. That is not the same as what is being suggested here.

Also, I've already suggested that radio-tagging isn't likely to solve the problem without being able to dismantle them. Good luck being able to confirm when you arrive that any person still remaining in the town was the person who was doing the speaking (in most cases).

And this is a problem why? Does the game code have to do all the work for us? Or can we actually RP some investigation work?

Should we start setting up invisible walls to stop suicidal newspawns running away too? How many more exploits of the game can we stop by ignoring realism and taking away RP possibility from the characters?

[Slyder_Glyder_Ryder_etc]

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I think radios should have some bit of anonymity to them to keep it exciting. -But- I think you should be able to recognize the voice of someone you've already met in person. That's why I still like my idea the best!

If this is annoying enough, we could make it so that Cantr radios always send their ID in the beginning of a transmission. That way there is a chance of figuring out who is sending. Characters would have to make a list of known radio transmitters though I guess.

I was just thinking of this... but a little different.. For example if I tagged a character with a name other than the default, it would say "You hear a familiar voice from radio at freq. 100: {insert something about kinky sex here}

Just an idea, I don't know how hard it would be to implement.

Yes, read it one more time.. let it sink in... and chill...

[Snickie]

If this is annoying enough, we could make it so that Cantr radios always send their ID in the beginning of a transmission. That way there is a chance of figuring out who is sending. Characters would have to make a list of known radio transmitters though I guess.

A problem with this has to do with the repeaters. Do repeaters have their own ID´s? And if so, would it be the repeater's ID or the transmitter's ID that gets sent?

I like Slyder's idea best. To add on to it, a person who you've only heard on the radio could be tagged when you see them as (ex:) "a man in his forties whose voice seems familiar to you" (or some shorter equivalent).

[RedQueen.exe]

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record, but here we go again...

And I was saying it is hard to recognise someone you have only ever heard before. It was what I said in my original statement which you responded to. I don't see where I am stating that you said something which you did not.

You said it is easy to imitate people, I then said it is not. This is the part I was addressing in that post.

And the bottom line is, I would really love an explanation from you of how it is any less realistic than being able to recall the name of someone you met just briefly 80 years ago, as can be done will the current dynamic naming system.

Just because something else in the game is also unrealistic doesn't make this any more viable an option. Nobody is proposing we give characters superpowers on the basis that it is no more unrealistic than them currently being able to carry the equipment needed to build a hall. And I find it hard to understand why you don't consider facial recognition easier than voice recognition.

I am not stating that the fact other things are unrealistic is an argument in favor. What I am saying is that unrealism alone isn't a good enough argument against the idea. And the second isn't what I said either. I challenged you for a description on how it is any less realistic than remembering the NAME of someone you met briefly 80 years ago, which is more than simply remembering their face and additionally, a person's face would change quite a bit in 80 years time.

I agree differentiation between male and female voices would be a good implementation. That is not the same as what is being suggested here.

There are several different things being discussed here, and I haven't married any one of them in particular. I'm in favor of any which would allow differentiation between voices while creating the smallest possibility for new exploits and still being a reasonable approximation of reality.

Also, I've already suggested that radio-tagging isn't likely to solve the problem without being able to dismantle them. Good luck being able to confirm when you arrive that any person still remaining in the town was the person who was doing the speaking (in most cases).

And this is a problem why? Does the game code have to do all the work for us? Or can we actually RP some investigation work?

Should we start setting up invisible walls to stop suicidal newspawns running away too? How many more exploits of the game can we stop by ignoring realism and taking away RP possibility from the characters?

You're assuming RP will come out of people that are basically griefing the game to begin with. I put it about on the same level of enjoyment as all the in-game he-said/she-said rape accusations. There's no way to actually collect any useful evidence and prove that the person you're questioning actually did what you suspect them of. Or people will just broadcast their garbage for a while before moving to the next of hundreds of empty towns. Or broadcast from a moving vehicle in the case of triangulation. And radio tags suffer from their own sort of unrealism since minus some sort of PKI and certificate distribution, there is no way you could actuality provide emitter identification in the broadcast in a way that it couldn't be faked, and I don't think it fits the technology level of the radios in-game anyway. I think the easy fakeability that makes WLAN MAC filtering trivial to circumvent is a good analogy. Again, not that unrealism is a reason not to do it, but I just don't think you actually get much out of implementing it anyway.

This really isn't a suggestion forum though, and we have many ideas being discussed in a highly disorganized fashion. We're now reaching a point where we're arguing about WHAT the other is saying rather than arguing the pros and cons themselves, so I'm not sure I really see anything of value coming out of this. I fear I'm already taking this far too seriously as it is.

[EchoMan]

A man in his twenties (you recognice his voice as: Dude yelling on radio 1234-5) says: It wasn't me!

[Snickie]

Yes!

[Henkie]

Thatlooks better Echo

[SumBum]

All this talk about radios should be in the suggestion forum. Oh, wait - it already is.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21455

[the_antisocial_hermit]

And it should be split from this thread...

[mojomuppet]

And it should be split from this thread...

Oh please, this is the best topic on this whole thread, complain here, work it out and then send a few ideas to the suggestions. Send it there and you will get, this is not the place to discuss complaints...ideas only. Blah!

[the_antisocial_hermit]

After 3 pages of hashing, it's simply better to be discussed in its own thread so the ideas coming together don't get fragmented by people using this thread to its purpose- or keep people from using the thread to its purpose because they don't want to interrupt.

[RedQueen.exe]

I like how we always split the topics off after they've already died of their own volition. I think the only discussion I've seen of radios in a full day now is how we should be discussing radios somewhere else.

[EchoMan]

It's almost so I start to think this is a duiscussion forum of sorts...

[Mr. Bones]

If this is annoying enough, we could make it so that Cantr radios always send their ID in the beginning of a transmission. That way there is a chance of figuring out who is sending. Characters would have to make a list of known radio transmitters though I guess.

I was just thinking of this... but a little different.. For example if I tagged a character with a name other than the default, it would say "You hear a familiar voice from radio at freq. 100: {insert something about kinky sex here}

Just an idea, I don't know how hard it would be to implement.

Yeah, or just make it like it is with people.

You hear a man in his twenties from radio at freq. 100: [insert quote]

And then you could change the person's tag just like with a normal person, it would just be like clicking a person to tag from your events that isn't in the building anymore. The next time they spoke it would have the person's name as you know them, and if you ever met them in person, the name would still be tagged, you'd just pretend you recognized their voice from the radio, which is realistic. In the same way, if someone you've already met gets on the radio...

I don't think this would be possible. I don't like the idea of being able to tell age or any characteristics of a person just by talking to them over the radio. We don't have anyone in Cantr who wouldn't have already gone through puberty, so it can be assumed that all the men's voice have changed and hence telling their age would not be possible. I do think that having it set up where some voice recognition is there would be great though. Maybe where you can label a voice with an identifier such as a name, and when you meet the person and hear them speak, you can recognize the voice, but not just from sight alone. It would be nice if there was a way to make it a bit of a challenge to match the voice with the person though, so it isn't instant recognition; in some cases a person might not want to be identified from their radio conversation, and there should still be some chance of anonymity. Maybe once you flag a person on the radio, there could be a random chance of recognizing their voice in person everytime they speak. It could be low, such as with whispering.

[EchoMan]

Like this? :

A man in his twenties (you recognice his voice as: Dude yelling on radio 1234-5) says: It wasn't me!