Less time to make coins.

[Wilmer Bordonado]

I don't understand where's the problem with the "cost" of coins for you. It's a simple question.

"Cost" in Cantr is Time. The amount of time you work on a raw resource or that you travel to town to carry it is the "cost" of it. Costs of raw resources into location should be considered as "work days". Cost of raw in other sites should be considered as "work days" + "travel days".

The coins costs the quantity of material used on it. A copper coin will cost 10g of copper, but you can't use copper for buying a jeep (and here I am replying to Talapus questions) just because the copper in itself hasn't printed a legend on it. The actual value of a coin is the name on it.

Copper as a raw resource has a cost. Let's say, 10 copper coins is equal to 150g of copper, for instance. But copper coins has no cost, for the simple stuff that you can't buy a copper coin with another copper coin.

The requirement of a day of work on making coins is giving them an extra cost they shouldn't have to be practical for commerce.

Wilmer B.

[Wilmer Bordonado]

ps. Real Life Context: http://www.treasury.gov/education/faq/coins/production.shtml The US government makes 28 billions of coins a year. 76 millions of them per day.
I know it's useless to compare... but... 20 coins a day?????

Yep sounds like our rates are too high - 76 million coins per day with a total population of 295 million - so thats a production rate of about 1 coin for every 4 people per day - A Character using a Cantr coin press can produce 20 coins a day (40 if two people work on it) - but only 2 towns have populations of 70 or more in Cantr (according to last census figures) so coin production rates in Cantr are potentially much more than in the USA .. but as you say ...it's useless to compare

But... you know what? The US coin presses would still make 76m of coins per day, if the country's population would decrease to 1000 people.

The question is about machine's capabilities, so it's irrelevant to consider the variable "population" according to them.

You don't take care of population when setting the rate for a potatoe harvester or when setting the maximum space into a ship. Why doing it when calculating the production rate of a coin press?

Wilmer B.

[wietse]

in Cantr, no one has really made a large scale currency.

Maybe not large scale, but i am using and making coins representing hundreds of days work.

And the coins work!. The only problem is trust, which is low. But that has to do with the quick player roulation and actually low number of active players on the island.

[/quote]

[Crosshair]

D'you mean Coins in Circulation, right?

[Wilmer Bordonado]

in Cantr, no one has really made a large scale currency.

Maybe not large scale, but i am using and making coins representing hundreds of days work.

And the coins work!. The only problem is trust, which is low. But that has to do with the quick player roulation and actually low number of active players on the island.

[/quote]

About trust...
I think a currency system will work in Cantr if the one who implement it is willing work as a trader. It could be a charrie, many of them, or a whole city. But one thing should be absolutely respected: no other way of payment will be accepted from buyers. Then tradings on raw materials will be finished, and if you still want to buy that sabre, just simply get the coins, because we're not going to accept those diamonds!

It's not a matter of trust, but a hard decission for who's leading the production: "I'll only accept my own coins and nothing else on payment". The demand of products will do the rest by itself.

Wilmer B.

[wichita]

But one thing should be absolutely respected: no other way of payment will be accepted from buyers. Then tradings on raw materials will be finished, and if you still want to buy that sabre, just simply get the coins, because we're not going to accept those diamonds!

It's not a matter of trust, but a hard decission for who's leading the production: "I'll only accept my own coins and nothing else on payment". The demand of products will do the rest by itself.

I still think that is the attitude that killed coinage in Quillanoi.

[Wilmer Bordonado]

I still think that is the attitude that killed coinage in Quillanoi.

Cities are made of people, and people has different cultures, languages, attitudes, and needs.

Wilmer B.

[Mykey]

I join. I agree with told all above.

[Nosajimiki]

One thing to remember about currency is that it is actually a relitivly high tech thing that many of us take as a given and are thus disapointed not to see it in most cities in Cantr which over-all has a more mid-evil/ancient level of civilization in most places. It makes since that currency is such an issue in Cantr b/c it was such an issue to get off the ground IRL. Ancient Sparta had no monitary system and they were the cultual parrell to Athens for centries, the U.S. (or the land of artificial wealth as I will call if in this respect ) didn't actually have a standardized currency until after the post Western-expansion era, and didn't get off the gold-standard until the great depresion, for the same reason it's hard to judge a coin as having an abitrary value in Cantr.

Also, mandating that people pay in coin will stiffle an economy, but try paying a worker in coin, and see how it works. If you have a well developed town with say 3-4 shops that accept a certain currency, what is really better, being payed in whatever your employer produces, or in something that lets you get whatever you want that the entire city produces. Hey look I just worked as a tailor for a few years now I have clothes, a steel saber, an assortment of tools and a bike, wow! I didn't have to go out looking for resources for any of them.

It's also a relivly light form of wealth if you don't judge it on matterial cost, (towns that can import highly foriegn metals like copper or tin when it's 7-8 towns away have a bit of an advantage here as they can better justify an inflated value based on scarcity principles). back on topic, if you are being payed in something that wieghs 1-2grams/day labour instead of even sometihng very obvioulsy useful like iron at 40-60 g/dl You see vast advantages when you plan on working somewhere for awhile do to limited carring ability.

[wichita]

Also, mandating that people pay in coin will stiffle an economy, but try paying a worker in coin, and see how it works. If you have a well developed town with say 3-4 shops that accept a certain currency, what is really better, being payed in whatever your employer produces, or in something that lets you get whatever you want that the entire city produces. Hey look I just worked as a tailor for a few years now I have clothes, a steel saber, an assortment of tools and a bike, wow! I didn't have to go out looking for resources for any of them.

It's also a relivly light form of wealth if you don't judge it on matterial cost, (towns that can import highly foriegn metals like copper or tin when it's 7-8 towns away have a bit of an advantage here as they can better justify an inflated value based on scarcity principles). back on topic, if you are being payed in something that wieghs 1-2grams/day labour instead of even sometihng very obvioulsy useful like iron at 40-60 g/dl You see vast advantages when you plan on working somewhere for awhile do to limited carring ability.

Dead on. I think you make the most convincing points right there.

[wietse]

It's not a matter of trust, but a hard decission for who's leading the production: "I'll only accept my own coins and nothing else on payment". The demand of products will do the rest by itself.

you seem to forget people have to get coins first.
So you have to pay people in coins for their work or for their goods. Most of the time they will hand the coins in right away and trade them for other goods. So the coins are only used for calculating prices. Who am I to stop them? But sometimes people will keep them for a while, sometimes because they don't want anything you have a the moment, or sometimes to buy somethings with them from someone else. The trick is to get enough coins in circulation, but it's hard with just a few characters you can trust not to die or run away while distributing (trading) the coins....

[Wilmer Bordonado]

Yes, you're right, the trick is to get enough coins and to set it's value according to the number of them in circulation. That's why I think eliminating the factor "time" from the production of coins will help a lot on currency systems' development.
When a charrie dies, his or her goods goes to the ground, and so coins... Then somebody who's lucky will take them and put them on circulation again, or reclaim them. Reclaiming coins could be a way of affecting the currency system, but there will be always raw metals to make new coins, so if the "banker" is not very lazy and takes care of the system, I should work properly.

Wilmer B.

[Mykey]

I am final, I am sorry, but you could not give more information.

[Nakranoth]

Here's a thought... instead of changing how long it takes to make a single coin... make coins into a resource, like this a coin in its singular unit, the gram, can be produced as a more substancial project instead of pumping out a single coin, you would then make x grams of coinage. This means that smaller units of trade could be expressed with said coins, making transactions with these coins more useful. Also, like this, they maintain a very real barter value outside of where they were originally minted because they could be reprocessed back into their original material, but aren't so "valuable" somewhere else that you wouldn't trade them away. A gram of Iron coins in a city with a value set by the government for those coins would be higher than a gram of iron, but they wouldn't be worthless everywhere else, so merchents wouldn't mind tradeing for or with them. This would also make coin management significantly more possible, as you would have x grams of Lord Whoever's iron coins.

[wichita]

Here's a thought... instead of changing how long it takes to make a single coin... make coins into a resource, like this a coin in its singular unit, the gram, can be produced as a more substancial project instead of pumping out a single coin, you would then make x grams of coinage. This means that smaller units of trade could be expressed with said coins, making transactions with these coins more useful. Also, like this, they maintain a very real barter value outside of where they were originally minted because they could be reprocessed back into their original material, but aren't so "valuable" somewhere else that you wouldn't trade them away. A gram of Iron coins in a city with a value set by the government for those coins would be higher than a gram of iron, but they wouldn't be worthless everywhere else, so merchents wouldn't mind tradeing for or with them. This would also make coin management significantly more possible, as you would have x grams of Lord Whoever's iron coins.

And thusly "make coins stackable" is verbosely rephrased. Trust me, we would love it to look like this. Been asking for it since the first coins were made.