Capital Rule and Languages

[wulf]

Accepting the fact that characters can't automatically speak another language just because you can look it up online, is it possible to be arranged to be dropped near a linguistic border. That might well be a way to stimulate the development of language schools and other in-game mechanisms for cross-cultural communication, as you'd have a set of characters played by people who want to learn a language and would be happy to play through the process of sounding like idiots, making mistakes and being corrected all the time.

Wulf

[Russell of Los Angeles]

Whatever Spanish knowledge you have as a player, your english characters don't know Spanish.

Right. But because I do know some Spanish, it will be easier for me to have my characters learn Spanish.

[Russell of Los Angeles]

...is it possible to be arranged to be dropped near a linguistic border.

Do you mean "It is." or "Is it?"?

[Nick]

...is it possible to be arranged to be dropped near a linguistic border.

Do you mean "It is." or "Is it?"?

I think he means "is it". It IS possible, but good luck convincing Jos or someone alike to let you do this. I think the idea is ridiculous, myself. You can't spawn your character to a certain place due to what you want them to do as a player.


And Russell, your character should have just as much difficulty learning spanish as zwahili, as your character does not have your player knowledge.

[The Hunter]

Heh. That dictionary Nick mentioned was probably mine. My cartograph found himself in a French are after crossing a large uninhabited area (not counting crocodiles who were there in bandance). The dictionary wasn't only a RP way to understand teh french people. Te fact that me, the player don't speak French either. That dictionary helped me alot.
One of my chars in the German language area experienced something different alltogether, Germans speaking english after a 5 minute encounter with an english speakig char, and the Dutch landing there after did the same. Sad.

[wulf]

Sorry - it was meant as a question, not a statement. None of my english speaking characters have come near a linguistic boundary yet. I'll have to get one or two of them signed up to sail the oceans!

Wulf

[Russell of Los Angeles]

I think he means "is it". It IS possible, but good luck convincing Jos or someone alike to let you do this. I think the idea is ridiculous, myself. You can't spawn your character to a certain place due to what you want them to do as a player.

And Russell, your character should have just as much difficulty learning spanish as zwahili, as your character does not have your player knowledge.

Ah, woe. The above is dissapointing on many levels, including that I feel confused and misunderstood.

If I were to be roleplaying a character learning Zwahili, you can be sure that she won't be learning it at the same pace I would if I were trying to learn Zwahili in Cantr. That is, I as the player am not going to be learning Zwahili only through Cantr. I would use other resources and study for myself so that I could better simulate and roleplay the events and activities of my character learning Zwahili. The simulated learning would be faster than "actual" learning, whatever that means. It was my understanding that this is okay from reading this thread. Have I misunderstood something? Please help me out.

However, there's two further points which I feel I haven't gotten across. If I'm using my own language ability (either previously possessed or acquired outside of Cantr as necessary) I would have the further advantage of understanding emotive expressions and body language put in **s.

Also. Even if I do choose to simulate a character learning a language at the ridiculously slow pace of a player trying to learn a language solely through Cantr, it would still be easier for me to roleplay it if I already know the language.

P.S. Nick's repeated emphasis that my character does not have my player knowledge is sympotamic of a collective insanity about the strictness of seperation between character knowledge and player knowledge. People tend to attempt to carry the seperation of knowledge way beyond what is required by the Capital Rule. I take this subject up further in this thread:
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6737

P.P.S
Why should the request to spawn near a language border for the sake of practicing a language be ridiculous? The game would be more educational, and I don't think it would disrupt the integrity of Cantr as a society simulator. But this is also a topic for another thread somewhere, one that I haven't started... yet.

[Wolf]

... and the Dutch landing there after did the same. Sad.

Hey, that's because we're Dutch, we are multilingual lovable bastards no matter what world we're dropped in

[Just A Bill]

I just thougth I'd throw in an interesting story. It was told to me as true, but who knows....

There was an American, who was the son of a US Soldier. He grew up moving around from base to base as his father was transfered. He was born in Norway, and lived there till he was 2-3 years old.

After he grew up, he travels to Norway on business, and in talking to people he is suprised to find out that he understands the language. Shocked by this he begins to converse with those around him. They all laugh at him because he is talking like a toddler...

[Lauren]

I've got another question on this topic...

I'm taking German in school, so, I created a character in the German area to perhaps broaden my understanding of conversational German. Are there any things I need to keep in mind to avoid making a CR breech myself?

[Junesun]

I've got another question on this topic...

I'm taking German in school, so, I created a character in the German area to perhaps broaden my understanding of conversational German. Are there any things I need to keep in mind to avoid making a CR breech myself?

Well, the CR is just as valid in the German area as elsewhere...

A language-related aspect of it would be that you mustn't just 'know' a language you only just encountered; your character may only speak the language you opted for at the beginning - in this case, German. Even if you stumble upon some English characters, you must not immediately know English, much less use English before you have met any.

Also, the rule is that you mustn't play a character in a foreign language area if you don't really know the language. Using an automatic translator doesn't count, because most of the time they just return gibberish. Trust me, if you have taken one year of language classes and you own a good dictionary that you're not afraid to use, you can make yourself understood better than any machine translator currently can. If you need an automatic translator in order to play in a foreign language area, you shouldn't be playing there.

[Savanik]

I've got a character in the Russian area because I'm studying the language - I'm a native English speaker, though. My character found a long journel written in English - along with a couple slightly shorter notes that were written in both Russian and English. I've always wondered just how much justification it takes in order to 'learn' a language. In theory, he should be able to learn at least the basic structure from this 'Rosetta Stone'. But in practice...

Well, I suppose I'll sort this all out if he ever actually meets someone who speaks English.

Sav

[El_Skwidd]

I actually know a little bit of French, but when my Spanish char found some French people, he didn't know what they were saying at all. He managed to pick up a few words by looking at dictionaries laying around and by picking things up and putting them down, waiting for the French char to say what they were called. It was fun until she died.

[Pie]

Is it a CR breach to ask somone if they speak English, when england dosen't exist inside of cantr? I could just say my caracter just made the name up.

O, and, what language whould "ìîè äðóã" be frome?

[Sho]

Most of the English notes in the Russian area were created by English-speaking players who made Russian characters and didn't understand the rules. Those should not be used to learn the language.