Reducing Drag-Based Combat

[Sicofonte]

I like the idea of friends, teams or something like that (IMPLEMENTATION: for example as a friend-list, similar to an inventory, where you can add people pushing in a new button next to the smily one, or remove from it pushing the same (inverted) button next to the person in that list).
It can be usefull for balancing / making flexible / diversify other issues regarding the combat system, like bodyguards, alertness and so on.

[DylPickle]

*shivers* Anything but a "friends list" ..
If you want to hire a great bodyguard, hire an active character.

[Nakranoth]

Another Very simple method would to be outright limiting the number of dragging projects you can participate in within a tick... If you can only help drag one person in an hour, then you'd need a bigger crowd to drag two at the same time... I know that Tiredness is there for the same basic thing, but it doesn't work the way it would need to to prevent a 2-3 man group from draging 3-4 man group...

[Sicofonte]

-nods at Nakranoth's words-

Maybe increasing the tireness caused by a dragging activity could help too.

Or... yeah, why not, just making all the drag proyects one hour long (or half an hour if possible).

[Sicofonte]

*shivers* Anything but a "friends list" ..
If you want to hire a great bodyguard, hire an active character.

By bodyguard I was talking about people that blocks hits directed to other char. It is not possible currently with or without the teamlist.

[formerly known as hf]

I had REALLY BRILLIANT IDEA
And, lo-and-behold, someone else had already announced it.

Anyways, I was considering the deep-annoyance of the drag-and-lock combat situation.

The most obvious solution would be to introduce the ability to destroy lock from bpth sides, and with more speed than the crowbar (sledgehammers, yay)

But armour, both as added protection and a means to stop dragging would lead to a more Cantr-like combat.

As it is, a player has to be really on their toes to fight in Cantr. Docking, fighting, dragging - these are almost the only things that require split-secdon timing and constant attention from the player.

Cantr isn;t a game like that, so few players ever bother with that level of engagement.

Donning armour, knowing it would make your character safe if left unchecked for a while would encourage more people to engage in fighting, and lead to more prolonged battles, more Cantr-style than the current sporadic mix of hit and run tactics.

Of course, it wouldn't be worn all the time, and would severely affect any other activity apart from swinging something heavy, and would increase tiredness with use.

It's also require regular care and attention when stored.
(Thsu require cooperation to maintain equipped armies...)

We're never gonna have siege weapons, which seems to be planned, if characters can always just be dragged away...

[dryn]

We're never gonna have siege weapons, which seems to be planned, if characters can always just be dragged away...

You drag someone into a building to kill them. They use their stellar converter to blow up the building around you, negating the dragging. See how it helps?

As to how it will work when implemented waits to be seen. So it may be less effective then the above 'scenario'.

[Arlequin]

Against.

If you are a primitive man with nothing less than bone weapons, it's not surprising anyone can render you defenseless by catching you asleep.

If you need an antidragging armor, build a wooden cart and call it a chariot. (Unless I missed something about dragging people off locked vehicles).

If you are out in the open field, take shelter inside buildings so they need to drag you several times to lock you.

If you want an escape chance, get a crowbar.

If you want time to use your crowbar, equip your warrior with smoked meat, a wooden plate to make rations and tons of light healing food instead of carrying around the most silly things a warrior shouldn't carry around.

If your character is a warrior, think like a warrior, not like some greedy peasant with a sharp thingy.

[Pie]

I must dissagree with you're disagree-ing.

However I GOT'S AN IDEA that's probably alredy been suggested...

First we need to get tiredness up to par again (not totally, but still, more than it is now)

then we need to add the ability to hit a person more than once a day.

And then, we make it so that you need to be x amount of not tired to be able to leave an area.

and that right about does it. If you don't like this idea, becaus it kills of carricters to easaly, well then to bad, becaus you're only alternative is the "drag inside door with lock" thing.



or, i have this NEW IDEA!!! make it so that every tic, you can hit anyone five times, but, a tic now takes, like 5 or so days to be compleated.

..... there was reasoning behind that, but now i'm not so sure what it was....

OH! Or you could make it that you have to be in the same location as the person you are attacking for at least an hour or so, to be able to attack them.

[Nick]

The only way combat will ever work is if people can stand and fight face to face.

And until then, the only effective way to exert power is with guerilla tactics.

A more important thing to implement before easier ways to damage however, is more ways to defend.

This suggestion has been made plenty of times and I still like with it, that we should be able to attack a second time in that day if we are attacked back. Attacking somebody should also tire you less (if it's still 15%).

It also would be worth considering making shields protect a lot more, but make them much less effective with tiredness. This would allow you to increase the damage that a character can deal out in a day, while still taking away from the exceedingly large advantage the attacker has, as they'd be more susceptible to getting hurt.

[Solfius]

The only way combat will ever work is if people can stand and fight face to face.

And until then, the only effective way to exert power is with guerilla tactics.

As it is, a player has to be really on their toes to fight in Cantr. Docking, fighting, dragging - these are almost the only things that require split-secdon timing and constant attention from the player.

Cantr isn;t a game like that, so few players ever bother with that level of engagement.

three words:

Turn Based Combat

By making combat into a project, such as travelling, you prevent people jumping in and out of buildings and doing the whole dragging thing.

That is not to say that dragging can't be a part of a turn based combat system, but it should play a lesser role and combat should be mostly about hitting people with sharp objects, not dragging them into buildings.

The other change a turn based system will bring about is slowing the whole combat process down. This means damage per hit will need to be adjusted to take into account 8 potential hits per day, but that isn't very difficult, just reduce all damage values to an eighth.

A turn based combat system will result in a more realistic simulation of combat, level the playing field for less active players, and reduce the imbalance between attacker and defender to reasonable levels

[Racetyme]

I like the current system. It allows players with lesser equipment to have a chance at winning.

[Solfius]

No reason why a new system can't do that as well as address issues such as believability and balancing attacking and defending

[SekoETC]

I cannot understand how Cantr manages to lack such a simple factor as randomness of damage. You could pull a critical miss even if you had the best sword in the world, or you could get lucky with a bone knife. I remember some sort of an explanation involving a bell curve, but I have never seen any sort of randomness occuring in Cantr. Well, exept for totally missing, and that's not skill related.

[DylPickle]

A little bell curve would be sort of a neat variation. It'd be a pain in the ass to factor in skills, strength, weapons, tiredness, hunger?, heath.... etc. But it would open the flood gates for some variation, and that would be nice.

I agree completely with HF, and slightly with Nick.

Combat as a project, though, would be a little strange. When it ends, one ends up dying? Executions would be a farce, but other than that, I could see how it could work, in theory. I don't know much about programming, but it sounds to me like that would be a toughy, x20, and would involve completely reforming something. Then there's the bugs that go along with it:
how do you drive by someone on the road from a vehicle, when you have to initiate a project?
You'd pass by them before it would even have an effect.