Thought or Rant of the day!!!

[Alladinsane]

Just for fun and to exercise peoples freedom of speech.
I apologize if anyone is offended by the dropping and detonating of numerous f-bombs. I will link it rather than paste it.
I was reminded of this.
Enjoy!

http://plaza.ufl.edu/johnaris/PDFs/Prob ... wChart.pdf

[saztronic]

I am sorry sir, but hate speech is protected under the constitution.
You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, or incite violence through verbal assaults, but those are different crimes.

And here you were calling someone else for not being thorough?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States is the "fire in a crowded theater" case.
This is just a wiki summary. If you have a few hours, you can read it in full. I hated that week and the discussions our classes had, but you might enjoy it. You know the name and I am sure most of the decisive text is out there due to its notorious fame.

The problems with crimes of hate speech is that they are an attempt to legislate a persons Thoughts.
Yes, thought crimes.
That's a pretty hard thing to do and even harder to prove unless they utter those thoughts, and then, once again, we have that nasty first amendment looming over us. Make your case, just this time use precedent and facts.

Its a good thing that you are "here all week". So far, 95yrs of legal studies by the best in our country (well, except you!) have not found grounds to reverse that 1919 decision.
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I won't go into your mostly correct analogies about the second amendment because they are not germane here. The religion one is a re-visitation of the 1st amendment, I don't know why you needed to separate it unless the clauses struck some personal nerve?
If nothing else, we are all getting either an education or (probably the majority) getting really bored.

I would suggest a separate thread here because we do not want to alienate those who have other legitimate issues in their lives that they want to posit here for support, advice, or controversy. This issue of free speech is settled so far unless you can pack the SCOTUS with people who will change precedent or get 2/3 of the states to ratify the constitution. Its hard, but we done have amended it 16 times in the past 101 years beginning with the 16th amendment in 1913. Again, look it up!

I look forward to our philosophical discussion. The legal one is over. But opinions are much like my signature.

If you'd like to take the conversation private or to another thread, I'm fine with that. But I feel compelled to answer this one here, since you've made one good point but about ten irrelevant ones.

You are right on hate speech, and good on you. In haste I conflated hate speech with hate crime, and they are obviously different though related matters of law. I appreciate your gentle remonstrance.

But you haven't really done anything to counter or undermine the validity of my main point, which remains: rights have limits. In fact, while tearing down my example regarding the right to freedom of speech, you offer up another example which makes the point for me - you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

You seem to be of the opinion (you don't say here, you may say in a previous post) that people don't have to vaccinate and shouldn't ever be compelled to, because it's a freedom of speech issue and thus protected by the Constitution. I'm more of the opinion that the courts just haven't gotten involved yet, and that it's likely to be an issue, eventually, that will be quite complicated from a legal standpoint.

In the interest of being thorough and "looking it up," for example, there is already a large body of case law that states that (https://www.thesullivangroup.com/risk_r ... efusal.asp):

...denying medical care to a child is not within the parents' First Amendment right of freedom of religion: "The right to practice religion freely does not include the liberty to expose... a child... to ill health or death. Parents may be free to become martyrs themselves. But it does not follow that they are free ... to make martyrs of their children..." State v. Perricone, N.J.Rep., Vol. 37, p. 463, Atlantic Reporter, 2d Series, Vol 181, p. 751, 1962.

In Re: The Petition of Allen Town Hospital- Lehigh Valley Hospital Center in the matter of J.S.S., (No. 1990-1492, Common Court of Pleas of Lehigh County Pennsylvania, Orphans Court Division, December 13, 1990) a Pennsylvania Court ordered a pregnant mother, who was a member of the Jehovah Witness faith, to undergo a blood transfusion to save the life of her unborn child...

In the case of In matter of McCauley, 565 N.E. 2d 411 (Mass. 1991) the court applied the best interest test and determined the child should receive treatment when the child's parents refused to consent to medical treatment on religious grounds.

The emergency physician should take temporary protective custody, provide care in such cases, and report to the appropriate individuals and agencies.

The case law in this area only pertains to the issue of parents refusing medical care for children (i.e. there is no legal precedent for compelling an adult to receive treatment).

Regardless, I think we're about one major outbreak away from seeing related cases on the issue of vaccines. I don't think we could have a preventable outbreak in this country where, hypothetically, 10,000 people get sick and there are maybe 20 child fatalities, and expect that in the aftermath there wouldn't be any legal challenges to philosophical or religious exemption laws regarding vaccines.

In fact the current measles outbreak may be sufficient reason for some to bring a case that would start to impact the vaccine issue.

I have no idea know how the courts would rule in such cases, either on freedom of religion or on freedom of speech grounds.

But I do think that claiming that the legal discussion "is over" is probably a little presumptuous.

[Alladinsane]

It was not freedom of speech that is my premise that was merely the easiest glaring example that I jumped on.
... it may closer to 9th amendment. But its been 20years since I was deep into legal studies.

I was just responding to your specific point and showing many "irrelevant" examples of how the constitution protects our rights. We are not a nation of citizens, we are a nation of laws and one document is "The ring above all the rest".

Again I say that currently, the law is pretty clear.

I do think you are right that it will go to SCOTUS and I think the constitution as it is written will be hard to refute.
With as many people feeling so strongly about this, if they can get the numbers, legislation may be forthcoming.
It will be interesting at least.


One final statistic.
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The number of measles deaths in the U.S in the past 10 years: zero.
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/zero-u-s- ... -reported/

"Me thinks she doth protest too much."

[Faith]

7 years avoiding go to the doctor to discover how nice is the new one I have here. He was more worried than me...I almost have felt the need to hug him and tell: "eh, don't worry, I will be fine"

[Genie]

Finally put an exhibition together with 2 other friends even though we had to pass through some problems and lots of tiredom. I am excited to see where will this movement lead us.

[*Wiro]

Finally put an exhibition together with 2 other friends even though we had to pass through some problems and lots of tiredom. I am excited to see where will this movement lead us.

An exhibition on what?

[Genie]

It was about bringing different kinds of art works together, I've joined that with my paintings. I Pm you the details.

[Rebma]

It was about bringing different kinds of art works together, I've joined that with my paintings. I Pm you the details.

Me too?

[Genie]

I uploaded photos here if someone else likes to see and doesn't like pming people https://www.flickr.com/photos/49293572@N07/

[Faith]

I uploaded photos here if someone else likes to see and doesn't like pming people https://www.flickr.com/photos/49293572@N07/

OMG, amazing Genie!

[Shedevil]

Curse my friends for hounding me to watch Doctor Who. Not like I needed another tv show to sell my soul to. At least I guess I know how I am spending my weekend off and my spare time at work. *sighs heavily before scampering off with a tablet hooked up to Netflix* Stupid friends..

[Snickie]

Quinoa tastes weird.

Or, at least, this quinoa tastes weird.

[destinysWalrus]

Curse my friends for hounding me to watch Doctor Who. Not like I needed another tv show to sell my soul to. At least I guess I know how I am spending my weekend off and my spare time at work. *sighs heavily before scampering off with a tablet hooked up to Netflix* Stupid friends..

Oh, it's even worse once you find "your doctor", and then start reading the comics...

(Seriously. I already have one comic I'd been following, I don't need to buy the Doctor Who stuff as well.... who am I kidding, of course I do)

[Snowdrop]

4:15am and I'm really wanting some cheese and crackers...

[*Wiro]

It's 1AM and I'm wondering why swear words have so much power. It's probably the most common irrational belief among people all over the world.