Piracy

[The Industriallist]

Does it really? That sounds like a giant bug. And I imagine the Survivors will have some trouble if that's true...

[Surly]

Yes...the mechanism is that a ship docked in a ship is like a ship docked in a harbor, or a room in a building. The only lock between you and the thing you landed on is the lock on the vessel that did the docking (yours).

Yes it is. And it is completely stupid...

[Solfius]

I disagree Surly.

Getting aboard ships is very easy, in fact in many cases stealing them is easy as well. You climb on the deck, untie the lines holding it ashore, then off you go (assuming it has sails, if it has an egine not so easy)

So in that way boat locks don't make a lot of sense, except real boats have cabins and an open deck so that's the only way to secure a cantr boat, but I feel it does make sense to be able to board if a boat simply sails up next to you.

[The Industriallist]

I should note that the boarder does get a major advantage from the fact that their vessel is essentially sitting on the deck...that is, they can hide behind their lock, but the other ship's lock doesn't apply.

Of course, you could counter this by carrying a larger crew, since only much smaller ships can board any given vessel.

[Surly]

Note: I do object to pirates boarding my ships while it is locked. If it is locked to people on land, it should be locked to people at sea. Either it is locked all the time, or none of the time. That simple, in my opinion.

That is exactly what I said, direct quote. I said it is stupid that it is locked to one and not the other. Quite simply, if they can board my boat, then I board theirs. And if I can't board theirs, how the hell do they get off my boat.

Boarding a longboat may be easier, there being no below deck storage. However, if you have ever tried boarding a canoe from another canoe it isn't that easy. Especially if the other person doesn't want you there.

Pirates can dock with your boat, steal all your stuff and disappear before you wake. That is exploiting the game system for your own advantage and is therefore a CR breach. Especially if you cannot pursue onto their boat. There are so many inconsistencies in boats and sea matters... it needs serious thought.

[The Industriallist]

That is exploiting the game system for your own advantage and is therefore a CR breach.

No. No CR breach there. That's how cantrian ships function. It isn't a bug, so 'exploiting' it is no more a CR breach than 'exploiting' the ability of a crossbow to punch through someone's shield (back when that was necessary and reliable). Or the ability to hit someone, then ride away on a bike too fast for them to catch up.

Other than that I don't really disagree, it would be good if some fix were invented. The problem is that docking with ships combines the effects of boarding actions and carried boats into a single unit...it's not unreasonable (as cantr works) for the ships cutter (or longboat) to be locked. You might, on the other hand, find it unreasonable for an enemy longboat to hoist itself aboard and have the same capability. I can't actually come up with a practicable fix though...can you?

[Surly]

I think my complaints can be quite easily addressed by introducing cabins. This can be locked, and contains the ships controls. The main ship cannot be locked, in port or at sea and can be boarded.

With longboats... the cheaper boat should mean less security. If you can't carry everything on your person, it is your own fault.

I feel there is a gaping hole over the issue of ship locks. I feel that sea-going people are being screwed by this systembe the absence of buildings on ships. A cabin would solve pretty much all the security problems I feel there are for bigger ships and make the game fairer.

[Spectrus_Wolfus]

on a long boat have a tiller lock. doesn't stop folks getting onboard but you have to unlock it to change course and steer the boat.

[Black Canyon]

I agree. It is rather aggravating to spend years building a galleon only to find that it is instead a sitting duck.

[Solfius]

I think Surly hit the nail on the head. But, could boats also be undocked without access to the controls? I think they ought to be able to, just for that added bit of mayhem. It would be a foolish person to do it though, as they'd be effectively trapped on board unless there is another boat around to save them.

...actually, it would make for very interesting boat thefts, you cast off the boat, meet up with your crew, then break the lock and are clean away

[west]

I agree with a lot of what's been said.

There should be lockeable cabins, preferably with the ship's controls in them.

There should be a way for the boardees to have some sort of control over the other boat. If they can go from the smaller to the bigger because they're docked on it, it should be possible to do the same from the bigger to the smaller, regardless of lock. That'd do a lot to even the playing field and would make more sense as far as real life goes as well.

[The Industriallist]

True, though you can approach that level of security by using a crowbar...if you get a shot at them, you can start breaking their lock. Not quite the same thing, though.

Additional problem...that would leave no way for locked carried vessels to exist.

[AoM]

I think a good place to start is to allow a bigger ship to board a smaller ship just as a smaller ship boards a big ship. No matter who does the boarding, locks should not be a hindrance to either side. OR They should be a hindrance to both sides.

The cabins sound like an excellent idea. Although would every ship come with them? Or would you have to build them on top of the ship's cost as well. If they come with the ship... will every ship already made in cantr magically have one?

If "controls" or a "helm" is introduced, should it be like furniture? In that one person has to be actively using it to pilot the ship? I think that would be appropriate.

One thing is for certain: A lone pirate on a long boat should never have four well armed sailors on a galleon at his mercy.

[The Industriallist]

One lone pirate on a longboat cannot hold 4 well armed sailors on a galleon at his mercy. He can, if they foul up badly, steal as much of their deck cargo as he can carry off (though I believe a well equipped galleon would have a retaliatory ability...)

If he succeeds in docking and tries a fight, they break open his lock and beat him to a pulp. If you're on a galleon you can't claim to be 'well armed' without a crowbar. If he tries to use the repeated hit and run that terrorizes coastlines...the galleon is several times faster, I believe. Once he undocks to rest for his next strike, they take off over the horizon.

The really properly armed galleon, of course, carries (at least) an interceptor. Assuming certain people in-game are correct (I don't know for sure) you can dock a dinghy with a longboat. So as soon as the LB cuts loose, you toss the combat dinghy over the side right on top of him...now he's outnumbered by boarders, who can cut and run back to the mothership if things go badly awry.

I actually think I prefer the complexities of current-era sea war (if it ever happens) to the suggested upgrades. Though I can understand arguing for something more realistic.

[Nick]

I'm afraid I've never heard of Northumberia. But one incident does not change the whole thing.

How many pirates have been hung, only to have more to come and take there place?

The same goes with drug dealers, smugglers, spring factory owners. There's money to be made, there willing to take the risk.

Just thought I'd say that.


You are indeed very right. The viking piracy only started (for the most part) after the collaspe. But that does not change the fact that there were pirates, and that those pirates *CENSORED* people up.

For the third time! No swearing!

CD: Quote censored. (Revanael)