I wonder why I still bother to check on my chars

[Stan]

It's just kind of disappointing that I had a guy that was taking over towns. Now he can't even make a bone needle in a sad attempt to make a cot to sleep on...and he has someone else trying to help.

If there's a trick to getting rested please tell us...sleep in RL is intuitive and instinctual...can't we RP that it's instincual in game too?

Please help.

[|william|]

I really don't want a challenge from this game. Life is challenging enough - Cantr is, at least for me, a way to escape reality.

exactly... but lately...

[The Sociologist]

The new tiredness is only a problem right now because nobody really knew how it worked. What hapened was everyone who had repeating projects have had their tiredness go through the roof.

Everyone with two brain cells to rub together has worked that one out long ago. Was that the issue griogal raised? No.

Complaining isn't the way to get things solved. If you don't have a system to replace the old one then you have no room to ridicule the existing one. And seriously if you are thinking about quitting because you didn't like the new challenge this has produced then I agree with Rev and perhaps you should quit because you obviously don't have any respect for the time that Jos and the rest of the staff put into this game.

There is such a thing as adjusting parameters, you know. Maybe the tiredness factor is too extreme. Maybe these "genetic" variations in skills were too extreme likewise.

Please bear in mind I don't have a single tired character myself. But I'm talking about the effects this is having on society and culture in Cantr, on law enforcement and suchlike. When a town leader yells "Kill that man" then hits him once and runs indoors. And of course noone else bothers to take action 'cause they can't afford to be that tired. And God forbid that they should try dragging him anywhere. Meanwhile my character was trying to trade with said town leader. And precisely how many RL months must he now wait for him to come outside again, if ever?
.

[Agar]

I know I shouldn't even reply, because even when I rant, it'll be so different it'll get moved to a different thread.

Firstly, if you want to know more about tiredness, search the forums. I've started a few threads and there are others there that have some information, and one of my threads was moved (of course) to the BUGS section, as it exposed a problem with the way tiredness was implemented.

Secondly, don't threatend to quit. It's boring. Like that lady or whatever that plays helen kingston. Every time I see someone has posted on her thread, I groan and wonder why she's not dead yet.

Threatening to quit is just an attention getting device! Congradulations, you are as sophisticated as a 5 year old pounding the floor in a tantrum.

Just quit, then post in the forums why you're leaving. That might get through to them that you really don't like the changes, rather than you find the changes inconvienent.

Now, why was tiredness implemented? Does anyone have a real answer to that? To keep pirates from killing whole towns? To add realism? To add potential new features?

Now, IRL, a man can go into an airplane with a small knife, and then proceed to stab everyone untill they do what he wants. In cantr, after stabbing a few people, the man would be to tired to hurt anyome else.

THAT is just silly.

IRL, people work and get tired. THEN THEY TAKE A BREAK! In cantr, people work themselves so hard, they can't do anything productive for another year.

Why can't projects kind of have the tiredness figured into them? Then, if we want to work harded, or need it right now, we can "work through the night" and just bust our tails and get tired for overworking ourselves? It'd make more sense, add more gameplay, and lead to more roleplay.

If we're going to get tired, why not get tired while travelling? Not walking, because again, when people get tired walking IRL, they rest. But could we please get tired RUNNING? It'd let us move things and info faster, and would add to the game.

There's possibilites in tiredness that haven't been exploited, and there's bugs that haven't been fixed. Give them time to fix the bugs, and think of something good that can come from being tired.

[Appleide]

I agree

[Missy]

There is such a thing as adjusting parameters, you know. Maybe the tiredness factor is too extreme. Maybe these "genetic" variations in skills were too extreme likewise.

Please bear in mind I don't have a single tired character myself. But I'm talking about the effects this is having on society and culture in Cantr, on law enforcement and suchlike. When a town leader yells "Kill that man" then hits him once and runs indoors. And of course noone else bothers to take action 'cause they can't afford to be that tired.

This is the second time I've seen you say it has had an effect on society and law enforcement. I can agree with society, as it should. But please direct me to where you've seen it have an effect on law enforcement?

The claim that a lot of town leaders have fallen asleep, and due to the new implementation isn't relevent considering you're not taking into account all things. IE Is the player just not interested, is the player busy, is the player's internet disconected, is the player busy with other characters, is there another reason the character is asleep? Ah-hah! Caught ya. People often exaggerate a situation they dislike, to make it look worse than it is. Perhaps all town leaders where you are, are asleep, but they aren't where I am.

Maybe your above scinerio is exactly what this game needs? To get rid of the people that try and tweak every little thing there is to know about cantr just so they the player can make a successful character. Isn't it about your character wanting success? In example, maybe you feel good when your character has been successful, but why do you need to know the rates of tiredness etc when it really isn't about you as a player knowing how to make a successful character, it's about your character learning how to become successful.

Maybe some of you didn't read Jos wonderful post that he posted because the same lot of you that were complaining! But in it toward the bottom he says he/programming will work on a way to reduce tiredness more effectively at some point! Until then, bear with them!

You worry about the effects it has on the cantr society? Well honey, I don't know what to tell you, but this isn't the worst, first and it wont be the last time an implementation makes things a little screwy. Richard, consistently tells you all of the changes we've gone through since the beginning of Cantr. Long time players don't have an advantage, we're going through them, right along with you. Maybe the difference is, the long time players have been playing long enough to know to expect changes that don't always fit perfectly at the beginning. (I think we've changed the attack method a few times, no? )

I'm hearing what you're saying, but Im telling you, it's not like that. You may think it's easy for me to say that...Well let me tell ya something, characters have never and will never get power/things/happiness without work. You think Stabber stan sat around all his life? No. He worked. And he too suffered through changes, but he still got where he is today. (A character whom I think is one of the most successful in Cantr.) If I had kept my old account I'd have characters in their late fifties and likely early sixties at this point in time, but I didn't. A lot of them had power, but they didn't get it for free. They suffered through attacks and wars and elections just like characters do right now. The characters I have now? They too, had to work for what they have. I have probably 4 characters that are 48. 2 Characters ithat just turned forty and the rest are all in their twenties. Now...tell me how many of them have influential positions? 2 do! And they worked their asses off for it, and they continue to do so! Tiredness, almost changes nothing, except your characters STILL have to work hard! Those who are in power have to work harder at keeping it, and those who want power have to work harder at trying to get it. There's still balance.

[swymir]

Personally I believe tiredness is the coolest thing that has been implimented in a long time. It does give a whole new depth to the game. Now about that knife on an airplace analogy. Yes you would never get tired attacking people on an airplain with a knife if they did nothing to fight back. Now I believe it was only a month ago that someone asked for a way to fight back in the attack system. Well imagine the attacker getting tired as because we can safely assume that the person you attacked fought back. In reality if you came at me with a knife I'm goingto my hardest to prevent you from doing it. There may be a great strugggle befor eyou actually hit me with that knife and then what kind of condition are you going to be in to attack the next guy most likeyl you are going to be too weak from wrestling the first guy to even land a blow on another. (Not even mentioning the cool taser guns they allowed on planes now; {Another stock that made me a couple hundred bucks})

Now another point that has come up is the effects on law enforcement. All this does is force LAw Enforcement to do the job that they are suppose to be doing. Protecting the town. They shouldn't be farming rice in the fields or smithing iron unless there is a surplus of ready to fight guardsmen out defending the town. Guarding should be just like any job and actually require some time. Too many people are wanting to be guards just because it gets them a great weapon and an extra paycheck on top of what they can gather. You are right now being a guardsmen isn't as appealing because it doesn't give you an extra boost in earnings. I don't think the system is unfair I think it has balanced everything.

[Dragonslayer4ever]

I like the new changes. As soon as I found out about the tiredness system I had already have some charrys work on beds. They work people. Try them out. In fact after my hard day at work I will be trying mine out in a few more minutes after I tell some of these people that change is good. In fact you complain about the tiredness right now but remember those other three bars. Thirst, dirtiness, and drunkeness. Now. I would be taking the time to set up for that one like a couple have been doing now. Those are yet to be put into affect at the moment but most likely will be. And I welcome them with open arms. Don't complain about the system learn about it. Learn how it works. How to work with it.

My point is what the others have been saying. Stop complaining and use the thing between your ears. Its not all that complicated if you actually think about it. It makes it so much better. Trust me you will see.

[Dragonslayer4ever]

Oh and on another note. Hmm. Being part of the staff might be fun. How would I go about that. I have a little bit of web page design skills, I.E. I played computer games all through my web designs class in high school.

But Im a fast learner and I am sure there has to be openings somewhere.

[Pirog]

I welcome the tiredness system in itself, but I have found that it is much to extreme when it comes to combat.

So far none of my characters have been through any wars, but from training and the occasional skirmish I understand that such a war (involving 5+ characters on each side) would cripple the people involved for perhaps 2-3 Cantrian years...and that is just crazy.
The system needs better ways to regain energy quicker. Perhaps beds and cots work, but I don't like a system where the only place you can rest is a bed...that doesn't make sense. A weary traveller should be able to rest in the middle of nowhere too.

In my view either combat fatigue needs to be lowered or the tiredness coming from it should be put in an independant bar only regulating combat values (but that last one wouldn't be very realistic)

[The Sociologist]

This is the second time I've seen you say it has had an effect on society and law enforcement. I can agree with society, as it should. But please direct me to where you've seen it have an effect on law enforcement?

I'm afraid there are issues there with what's been said to me, versus the 4-day rule. But Seatown Forest comes to mind.

The claim that a lot of town leaders have fallen asleep, and due to the new implementation isn't relevent considering you're not taking into account all things. IE Is the player just not interested, is the player busy, is the player's internet disconected, is the player busy with other characters, is there another reason the character is asleep?

I'm talking about town leaders who had policies, who threatened consequences, but when crimes occurred recently they just stood there even though they were active in other ways. "Oh look, newspawn stole our salt. -Naughty naughty. We'll give him a good talking to next time we see him".

If you look at their tiredness bars, it's not hard to see why. Now any number of these major characters have subsequently become significantly less active. One cannot trade with them if they are locked into their buildings. And locking yourself into a building is not the usual behavior of a player who's merely lost his isp for the moment.

Isn't it about your character wanting success? ...when it really isn't about you as a player knowing how to make a successful character, it's about your character learning how to become successful.

Thanks for taking the trouble to write such a long reply to me, but do please try not to patronize me. I know you didn't intend to, but it came out a bit like that. I'm not the greatest roleplayer by any means, but each of my characters does try to live his or her own life. I have one who only seeks to serve his "master" who saved him from the lions, another who turned down a major title (Chancellor) as she found it still above her age and station, and so on. Each has his or her own nature.

You think Stabber stan sat around all his life? No. He worked. And he too suffered through changes, but he still got where he is today. (A character whom I think is one of the most successful in Cantr.) .

I agree that he's successful, and also magnetic. All my little newspawns liked him the moment they met him... they didn't give me any choice in the matter. But isn't Stabber Ephiroll's character? And is Ephiroll a happy chappy at the moment? Well, I can't put words in his mouth but just look at his other post: "The only thing keeping me around at the moment is unfinished business on K isle, soon as that's taken care of I'll also be quitting, assuming I can tolerate things for that long..."
.

[The Industriallist]

It's not as bad as a lot of this thread says. Some of it's just a lot different. Of course, since it might be a CR breach to reallize that you can't waste a town singlehanded anymore, this could kill almost every existing character if we're strict about that...but that isn't a problem.

To the original complaint...the time of heros is well and truely over. A hero with massive armament is easy meat for vastly lesser but slightly mor numerous opponents. I think this is to an excessive degree really, but eh. Not a disaster.

What is getting to me is the slooow recovery. 4% per day. You get 15% tiredness from a full-strenth attack, I think. And a lot more from using the wrong work-styles. I think you ought to recover more like 10% a day, in a single deposit (so you don't get advantage from playing around the two recovery times). This is a refinement, but I think it's basically better, keeps all the good things of the current very nice system, involves very little work to change, and and will probably stop people from threatening to comit (cantr) suicide (and possibly some real drops, too. It's not necessarily a bluff...).

And besides if your characters are too tired to do anything you can always rp with me!

That would be RP destroying itself. If your character talks more just because you're getting bored of sitting not being able to do anything, that undermines the basis of the roleplay.

[joshua johnson]

There are aspects of the tiredness that I don't like much easier, but mostly, like every change, it fundamentally changes the game and alters the balance of power. Minor shoplifting type criminals are now more likely to get away with goods, while mass murderers are much less likely to succeed.

This is because the primary law enforcement I have seen is to chase after thieves on the road and pound them into coming back. If they don't, they die. Since it is dramatically harder to kill anyone, this method has become frustrating for law enforcement. They don't have any other good tools (such as dragging them back to town, or throwing them in the paddy wagon, etc).

This unusual balance will probably make people less likely to leave things lying around until something else changes.

Here is a suggestion, although I understand this is not the suggestions post...make it so that after picking an item off the ground, a person could not leave town (although they could leave the building) until one day later. That would balance the power so that law enforcement could drag thieves into a prison, or talk with them, or have more people there to chope them up, or whatever. Just an idea for everyone.

[Pirog]

Here is a suggestion, although I understand this is not the suggestions post...make it so that after picking an item off the ground, a person could not leave town (although they could leave the building) until one day later. That would balance the power so that law enforcement could drag thieves into a prison, or talk with them, or have more people there to chope them up, or whatever. Just an idea for everyone.

But that would make thieving impossible, and I don't think we want that either. The situation could be solved by a different road system...and as far as I understand it will in the "roadmap" posted by Jos.

[The Sociologist]

I've just witnessed someone with a wooden shield hurt for about 40 damage by a lion, the shield saved about 4. Unlikely due to skills alone, so presumably an effect of tiredness. But all the characters in that town are tired due to the sheer stress of life there.

Well, Jos wrote elsewhere about killing off our charries. I now understand what is meant by that. And while I'm as interested in social and other experiments as the next person, even I have my limits.

This is part of my recreation time and is supposed to be enjoyable. It is not supposed to frustrate me witless with the sheer futility of it all.

I'll hang around for a few weeks more at a lower level of activity, pending any signs of improvement.
.