ManyVoices wrote:saztronic wrote:
If you're going to use the CDC to cite what's in vaccines and what's harmful about them, you should probably be a little more thorough? It only takes one extra click to find this information about thimerosal - which does NOT, as you claim above, contain methyl mercury, but an entirely different compound that is metabolized a completely different way:
...
The scaremongering "information" you provide about MSG, formaldehyde, etc. is in a similar vein. It's hysteria and misinformation like that, that gets people scared of something it's really pretty silly to be scared of.
I stand corrected, yes, it is ethylmercury as opposed to methylmercury, but ...
Thimerosal is still a compound that contains mercury and is not something healthy for the body. That's why "Removal of thimerosal from vaccines was precipitated by an amendment to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Modernization Act that was signed into law on November 21, 1997." (Source:
http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-edu ... rosal.html).
You can read articles on both sides about how safe/unhealthy thimerosal is ... but to be
safe ... it has been removed from most childhood vaccines.
This isn't about lies, or scaremongering, or hysteria.
*rolls up his sleeves*
All right, I'll grant you that it's not scaremongering or hysteria. But it's still misinformation, which leads to scaremongering and hysteria.
Again, you've misrepresented the facts in your own source. The article that you cite states that thimerasol was removed from vaccines because infants "
could have been exposed to a cumulative dose of mercury as high as 187.5 micrograms (ug)* by 6 months of age. The cumulative dose exceeded guidelines recommended by the Environmental Protection Agency. [my emphasis]"
There are three things to note here. First, when it says that it was deemed that infants *could* have been exposed, the fact is that the experts never determined that such exposure was *likely* (nor does the article claim anything like this). In fact, for the reasons already stated about the solubility of ethyl mercury as opposed to methyl mercury, it was highly improbable that such an exposure would -ever- lead to measurable harm in anyone, infant or otherwise. But mercury scares people, and no one understood these finer points, and the FDA and the vaccine producers knew this. So they were considering removing thimerasol preemptively, even though studies showed and continue to show that it's perfectly safe. Second, the removal of thimerasol was precipitated by the FDA Modernization Act, but it was neither mandated by nor recommended by it. In fact, thimerasol wasn't removed from vaccines until 1998 - the same year that "Doctor" Andrew Wakefield published a bogus study in the UK purporting to demonstrate a link between thimerasol and autism. At that point the medical community threw up its hands and took the thimerasol out. As you probably know, Dr. Wakefield's study has since been completely debunked and he has been disgraced and stripped of his medical license.
Third, it's probably useful to understand the kinds of doses we're talking about. In the article you reference, it states that it was possible for an infant to be exposed to a cumulative dose of mercury as high as 187.5 micrograms, above the EPA's recommended threshold. That sounds bad. But if you consider the fact that the average can of grocery store tuna contains twice that amount, at 350 micrograms, maybe it sounds a little less bad. In the modern world we are exposed to mercury all the time (methyl, not ethyl). It's in our food, our water, our air... and our cumulative exposure so dwarfs the miniscule amount contained in vaccines that it's practically laughable. If you want to get exercised about mercury, you might want to focus on advocating for more stringent industrial emissions standards than ringing alarm bells about thimerasol in vaccines.
And that little tidbit on dosage levels is a critical one. You will find the same to be true of aluminum, MSG, and formaldeyde. In the trace amounts that are found in vaccines, they are negligible. You get more aluminum in your system every time you make an omelette with an aluminum frying pan.
To your point that "You can read articles on both sides about how safe/unhealthy thimerosal is." No, you really can't. And this is the most maddening assertion commonly made by those who are anti-vaccine. "Well, there are studies on both sides, we can't know..." In fact we can and do know very well. There is no link between thimerasol and autism, in fact there is no link between thimerasol in vaccines and any documented clinical harm whatsoever. I have never read a credible article claiming that thimerasol in vaccines harms people or makes them sick. The science is voluminous and it is conclusive. There are a lot of hack articles and snake oil salesmen out there who will tell you different. That doesn't mean they get to claim equivalent authority on the subject.
Can someone have a bad reaction to a vaccine? Of course. But the chances are incredibly, incredibly small. The complications that can result from contracting pertussis or measles are far more dangerous, and far more probable once you've fallen ill.
For the record, I am also pro choice when it comes to vaccines. I don't think the government should mandate their use. But it's an incredibly difficult issue for two reasons. First, the assertion that vaccines are dangerous is highly suspect, yet a substantial segment of the population opts out of vaccinating based on that assertion anyway. Second, by not vaccinating, one absolutely does expose one's family, neighbors, and fellow citizens to harm.
If I leave a loaded, unsecured gun in my living room and a child comes to my house and shoots himself with it, I'm criminally liable because I was criminally negligent. I failed to take reasonable, necessary precautions that would prevent significant harm coming to someone in my home. If I'm unknowingly carrying measles because I wasn't vaccinated and a child comes to my home and contracts it and is hospitalized as a result... am I liable? Was I negligent? It was easily preventable.
Thanks for coming, folks. I'm here all week and there's matinee shows on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I kill threads. It's what I do.
