Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

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Marian
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Marian » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:45 pm

Cantr has a culture, and it's uniquely Cantrian...the problem is that at this point it's a default culture that exists pretty much everywhere. There have been exceptions, but they usually require at least one really involved and active character in a leadership position dedicated to keeping it that way, and when they go the town will eventually lapse back into its old ways.

Anyway, just bumping this because the last few posts in the Factions thread were veering in this direction. This kind of discussion always fascinates me but this might be a better place to have it. :)

As for me, I have all kinds of ideas and will be telling you all about them at length just as soon as I get home. :lol:
hyrle
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby hyrle » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:15 pm

Well, I'll have to admit that I agree with the last statement, though there are some minor interesting cultures that some of my characters experience:

* One of my characters - who happens to also fallen into a leadership role - is a devout hippie and has a whole belief system that revolves around nature worship, and the town seems to go along with it to some degree.
* One of my characters lives in a town where a war between two of the local resources is always discussed. Additionally, a few of the characters refer to themselves as pirates, while being quite nice actually.
* One of my characters lives in a town where there are almost all males, yet some of the guys enjoy cross-dressing. They are also fiercely proud of their town and their island, despite it being quite a desolate location.

I admit, though, most of my other characters live in a somewhat vanilla culture that I agree could probably use some shaking up. Leaders aren't the only ones who can do that, though. It just requires a character to introduce it and others to play along a bit... either by adopting said culture or fighting against it.
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computaertist
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby computaertist » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:05 pm

I fail to see how fighting against it would help unless they're fighting it with an equally interesting culture rather than the plain vanilla, because it seems when people fight for the plain vanilla that always wins quickly and then we're back where we started.
Mark Twain wrote:Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.
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Marian
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Marian » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:47 pm

Well I never did get around to making the huge post I had stewing in the back of my brain, work has just been wearing me down too much.

But I will say that if I had one of my characters running a town or pushing a new culture, there are a couple of things I'd make sure of, even if they're from more of a meta standpoint.

1) Make it difficult for an active character of any kind to be killed, unless their player is obviously trying to force the situation. Even in a harsh society, even for a criminal, there should be enough wiggle room to let them continue playing the character as long as they're willing to, even if it's as a prisoner or a slave. There's plenty of options now for non-lethally dealing with problems, and murder-happy guards killing people out of hand just kills potential RP.

2) Make sure there's fun to be had for characters at every level of society, and put some effort into facilitating it yourself. Don't be that leader that just stands around holding keys. Say you're running a feudal system or a caste system...organize costume parties and tournaments for the upper class, encourage them all to get pet hawks or attend poetry readings and so on. But don't leave the lowly gatherer class out...maybe they're only allowed to wear hemp clothes, but they're also the only ones allowed to swear or spar in public or drink beer or enter mud huts. Give them sickles or pickaxes, load them up with beer, and then as long as no one directly insults a noble and, say, the mining class as a whole turns over a certain amount of resources every year, treat anything they might get up to as beneath your notice. Let them enforce rules and make work schedules and have clandestine meetings among themselves, if that's what they want.

Which leads me to: 3) Give people room to breathe. I can never shake the mental image of towns as these little squares where the average citizen just sort of stands around under constant scrutiny, hemmed in on all sides by buildings they're not allowed to enter. At all times everyone can hear every word you say and is hyper aware of every single thing you do. Let people feel free to explore, let them hang out in their apartments or in a quiet workshop with a friend...interesting things might happen. (And not just the sexy kind of 'interesting things', okay. :P)

4.) Make interesting rules. The kind that are easy to break, accidentally or otherwise. The same boring four laws in every town has been done to death. I always wish there were more creative ones with lots of misdemeanors mixed it. Everyone working for the town must have a neat and clean appearance. Men must pay a tax if they're not clean-shaven. The farmer who lets the pigs go hungry gets thrown in the mudhole, the couple that forgot to put their clothes back on before coming outside has to pay a fine, and so on. IRL regular people break the law pretty often and it's not a big deal, that's because we have more laws than 'no assault, no theft, don't trespass, don't hunt endangered species'.

5) Perhaps the most important one: Entice those newspawns. A town with a lot of strange customs or laws is going to take a little warming up to, especially if it clashes with the idea the player already had for that character. I always thought I'd like to have people in town assigned as mentors whose job it was to pay special attention to newspawns, take them aside to ask or answer questions and help them settle into a useful role. Leaving town in the first ten days might be...disallowed, for...their own protection. Also in an extreme case there could always be the...Special Workshop for Recalcitrant Young People, located somewhere nice and private, for the ones that absolutely refuse to let go of their generic Cantrian cultural bias... ;)
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sherman
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby sherman » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:14 am

I have to admit these are all great tips and will make something really special if pulled right.. Which makes me think... combine these with kidnapping sleepers and we have something nice...

Would be actually fun to make town with bizarre laws, like some US states have really weird laws.. Like it's illegal to walk with without shoes (Poor newspawns, right away breaking law)
Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.
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Surly
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Surly » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:49 am

My problem is that every time I try to instil culture or record history and get rebuffed by a sleepy very old character, a part of me cares a little less when I try again.

Old characters, if you want to leave a legacy on Cantr... you need to try a bit harder!
Formerly known as "The Surly Cantrian"
Former CD chair, former MD chair, former RD member, former Personnel Officer, former GAB member.
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Marian
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Marian » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:20 pm

Oh ffs I just spent twenty minutes writing a post and then got logged out while posting it. I'll try again in a bit, too mad now. :x
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kicking jay
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby kicking jay » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:55 pm

Install the Lazarus addon.

Don't ever try to do anything without it. (Made the Common App bearable for me.)
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Doug R.
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Doug R. » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:17 pm

There is something inherently creepy about an extension that logs everything I write!
Hamsters is nice. ~Kaylee, Firefly
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Marian
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Marian » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:47 pm

Santa Claus, Jesus, and the NSA already got you covered there Doug so I wouldn't worry too much about one little browser extension is getting up too. ;)

I keep meaning to come back to this thread but I'm just so tired when I get home every night and the essay-writing portion of my brain is a bit rusty anyhow. But Surly's complaint is about the obvious issue with sleepy town leaders that's been plaguing the game since forever, and that's why all my 'advice' made the assumption that your own character would be the one in a leadership position, or at least one with enough resources and connections that they might as well be.

None of my current characters really have the right mindset to ever get anything like this off the ground, but I've always been fascinated with the idea of a strict caste or class system in Cantr, as vile as the whole idea is in real life. Newspawns and new citizens would be taken aside by a kind of mentor figure who would question them and test their skills, and they'd eventually be assigned a specific job and given any tools they needed, with certain rules or expectations of them specific to their class. To put a positive spin on it, newspawns would be getting individual attention and an opportunity to fill a needed role in the town right away, instead of the usual thing where everyone says hello and exchanges names and then they're handed a few bone tools and left to fend for themselves. And whether they agreed with this system or not, there'd always be opportunities for interesting roleplay both within and between different classes.

I do also love the idea of 'unique societies within a society', but like most things I think could be cool in Cantr, realistically they'd never work, because when I imagine these scenarios they usually assume a town of a dozen or so active people willing to play along, which is pretty much a pipe dream.
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Friar Briar
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Re: Lack of culture within the Cantr communities.

Postby Friar Briar » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:05 am

Marian wrote: when I imagine these scenarios they usually assume a town of a dozen or so active people willing to play along, which is pretty much a pipe dream.

Therein right there. I'm far more interested in the player who's willing to play along instead of characters who are so "locked-in" that there's no room to move. Rule-breaking is interesting. It's interesting in-game as part of town culture, and it's interesting as part of character building. To me, it's how the story moves.

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