Thinking about quitting.....

[Cdls]

but seriously do we really need all the changes and the extreme work? Goal should be making things easier and more enjoyable for the people, not complicated.

Most of the big changes seem to have this effect on some players. You get some people who really love new changes coming to the game, and others who are so set in how things are and when anything changes, it upsets them.

There are changes that I personally haven't liked, but like many others, I find a way to move on passed it. I do agree that there should be changes made to make things easier and more enjoyable, but moreso in the direction of really being able to create the character you want to play (such as being able to have a say, even in a small part, in what skills the character is more developed in).

[Reaction]

Not to be overly redundant, but this does seem like an over reaction. Changes can't be unanimously welcomed with such a spectrum of players, and even more diverse range of characters, but it seems unfair to begrudge the staff the adjustments they've been making. Especially when you try and consider the time that goes into planning, coding and testing these features. It's a lot that's asked of volunteer staff, and they keep busy, I think they're deserving of more positive recognition than this finger pointing.

[SekoETC]

Please don't be upset. It's not the first time changes to the game change lives, like Surly mentioned about the implementation of skills in the first place. I had a character who was a town guard, roleplayed as a particularly big and strong man, at least six feet tall, and ended up much weaker than average and an awkward fighter. Also I had another character who had worked most of his life in a hemp processing workshop, yet after the implementation of skills, he was an awkward tailor. The first character committed suicide after a long time of trying to reach at least novice and failing, while the second one worked for years and eventually reached efficient in tailoring. Maybe characters who have domesticated cows will start exporting butter when it becomes possible to manufacture, and it will become the next new hype after olive oil.

[computaertist]

For what it's worth, I also think changing old recipes that were very easy to being so incredibly difficult in comparison for no in character reason is a rather arduous offence. Had I been around for skill changes I'd have felt the same then. It just so happens I don't currently have any characters who'll be hurt much and if anything two or three will profit from their milk becoming more valuable.

I don't imagine if such a thing were to happen that hurt many of my characters -now- I would quit over it, but only because I've been through this with other games often enough to learn to roll with it. (Yes, I have quit games over this kind of thing before. No, I don't even think about them until I have a use for the analogy, much less miss them or regret it. But then I didn't hurt anyone, not even imaginary people, leaving those. Cantr is unique as far as I can tell in how much it feels like it matters, even though [we keep reminding each other] it's just a game.)

I'm not sure there's a point here. I'm just tossing a cent or two into the collective conscience of this forum on the off chance it helps push things in a direction I like.

[Pies]

Goal should be making things easier and more enjoyable for the people, not complicated.

I don't agree with you. Things should be more enjoyable, yes, but easier for me means boring or finished faster. Changes rarely makes game harder in meaning "it's harder to survive", but we definitely need harder in meaning "it will take more planning and work until we got all what is possible".
Cantr as sandbox game doesn't have any finish, but often many players can have feeling that they finished game because they already got everything what is possible and have seen all. This is special problems for big cities, when they basically got everything and there is no way to improve, no reason to live beside chit-chat. Last possible way is cooperation with other towns, but when I was able to observe it few years ago, smaller towns basically didn't need anything, because they were able to reach end game also, and cooperation in result were dying.

[sanchez]

I have to agree about the change to the old food recipes. There is no good reason to change such long-established recipes. And Nobody irl makes pizza dough with butter!

We have too many recipes with grains and animal products already: cheese sandwich, pierogi with cheese, etc. What different need does the new pizza recipe address for these same ingredients? Butter is fine, but should be something new, with its own incentives.

New foods should address needs of populations of chars that are not already met. Figure out which zones have access to which ingredients, which fuels, and what kinds of current recipes are available. If, e.g. an isolated group has no easily available prepared healing foods, make a recipes from local ingredients in the region. But as it is, there are too many uses for too few ingredients based on Players’ OOC preferences. The spirit of CR should drive implementations based on what our Chars experience. Changing established recipes should be equally well-motivated In Game.

Please restore the old recipes, and add new ones that make sense for our chars.

[*Wiro]

I have to agree about the change to the old food recipes. There is no good reason to change such long-established recipes. And Nobody irl makes pizza dough with butter!

Pizzas will no longer require pastry dough. They will require plain wheat flour instead. In addition pizza will require a new (quite natural) ingredient - cheese.

It would be nice to start a discussion on certain ingredient combinations (on islands) and think of recipes that could be specific to those regions. It's something Seko has been working on for a while, and hopefully some of the recipes will make their way into the game before long.

[SekoETC]

Eventually there will be local recipes that can be made with the resources native to an island, a cluster of islands near to each other, or a cluster of locations close to each other on a bigger continent. We must bear in mind, though, that if it's possible to make something without traveling, it doesn't boost trade. So there will always be recipes that require resources from different islands.

Many of my characters can't make any of the pasta dishes or soaps due to lacking ingredients but you don't hear me complaining, or changing the recipes just to make life easier. The addition of butter can be compared to the removal of iron gatherable directly from the ground. It does make the game more complicated, but it's possible to start a long project under the old system and sell the product as if you had used butter on it, thus making profit.

[sanchez]

It’s nothing like pulling iron from the ground. The old recipes already used locally grouped ingredients, and were established for trade. It’s the interjection of animal products that’s artificial. Not all chars have the ability to make domestication infrastructure. It’s great to have incentives for it. But there is no reason these can’t be from new recipes. There does not appear to be any reason to change the old recipes other than OOC tastes. It’s unnecessarily disruptive.

[Cdls]

I think it is time that this discussion gets moved to a more appropriate location. If you have a suggestion, post in the suggestion forum. If you want to debate the upcoming change(s), post it in the Game Changes thread.

If you are thinking about quitting, then by all means, post here.

[ObsessedWithCats]

I can't quit, but I am taking a big step back - currently my plan is to let go of all of my characters without any leadership duties (in part because they happen to be my most isolated and unmotivated characters). I'm finding it harder and harder to sign in at all and hopefully this'll help me pull myself together enough that I can put more time into characters who others rely on to wake.

[Xander]

I've cut back myself, I'm down to eleven and would prefer to have about six or seven. My characters range in age from 99 to 23 and I can't really decide which one I could kill off next.

[Mitch79]

I've cut way back myself. I have six and a couple of those are likely going too.

[sherman]

And I have just 14 chars alive and I am still waiting first one to hit even 50 Even though most are quiet and on sleepy regions I think killing one or two would really be killing blow to their communities

[Snickie]

I'm not even thinking about quitting, but I just wanted to bring this up.

Until I cull myself down to probably 4 characters I will not be spawning any more, no matter how good of ideas I get for characters. I have 8 right now, and even though none of them are really involved in anything, I still find it difficult sometimes to read through everything. And once that happens, if I spawn another character, it won't be an English one. I've been meaning to spawn another Spanish character, or maybe even a French character (even though my French is still quite abysmal) anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to actively cull them. I'm still feeding my characters and giving them things to do. It's just a matter of somebody's-gonna-have-to-kill-them or I'm-going-to-have-to-have-my-characters-get-hopelessly-lost-and-starved or oops-I-forgot-to-feed-my-character-because-I-forgot-that-I-had-hunger-messages-turned-off.