why?

[Joshuamonkey]

there has to be a difference between walking and vehicle use, but one turn for cars, two for bikes, four for walking....something like that. Would make a world of difference in how boring the game can be, or not.

I agree..I don't think long travel times is helping the game much.

In my opinion killing is too easy in Cantr. And I'm not referring to game mechanics but to morality.

Characters get killed for insulting someone, for slapping someone, for taking stuff without asking, for using machines without asking, for not telling their name, for hunting and so on...
Often without a second chance, although they aren't always suicidal newspawns.
And those who kill such a character are never treated (at least I've never noticed it) as murderers but as heroes.

When my peacefully stuffcollecting character gets imprisoned and attacked by a town leader (his ingame reason was avarice) and everyone who travels through the town helps killing my character without asking, without any doubts that the killing is justified, I wonder what's wrong with the society in Cantr.

Thank you! I've been thinking the same thing for a long time.

[Doug R.]

The problem is not that people make hostile laws, it's that people kill for others without question. History is full of hostile laws. In England, poaching on the King's land was punishable by death. That's no different than the laws of the Stone Knights or Blackrocks. The difference is, in the real world, the poacher would be protected by his peers, not mobbed upon by absolutely everyone as soon as the King got wind that someone shot a deer without permission. Characters in Cantr gleefully skewer anyone hunted by another character. Guilt is assumed, and even if guilt is in fact, it seems guilt is enough of a crime on it's own (i.e., you're guilty of something, so I can get away with killing you, even if I don't think what you did is wrong).

I think it's simply because it's a quick adrenaline rush in an otherwise slow-paced world.

[Wolfsong]

Also - another difference between RL and Cantr.

A peasant caught poaching on the King's lands would be shit scared of dying and probably beg for his life, or repent, or at the very least apologize. 99% of everyone on Cantr, when caught breaking a law, laugh, sneer, mock everyone trying to punish them, and dig themselves into holes they can't get out of.

[Slyder_Glyder_Ryder_etc]

I think we're losing players because people heard I was coming back.. and now that I am back.. well prepare for there to be one man standing.

[Addicted]

What about a woman?

[gejyspa]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The U.S. was founded by fighting a revolution and the Constitution is based on securing the rights of the people. Such rights are protected through force more often than not.

To completely disregard the impact that violence has on society is obtuse.

Well, let's talk about the phrases you highlighted. "Provide for the common defence" Yup, here you are right. "Defence" as ONE founding ideal for a society.

"Establish Justice" -- "Your honor, his fence is over my property line".
"No it's not" "I've examined the photos and deeds. It is. Move it or remove it. Judgment for the plaintiff" "Okay"

"Your honor, he refuses to pay the amount he contracted with me." "No, he didn't fulfil the conditions." "I"m sorry, I've reviewed the contract, and by your own admission, he fulfilled all the terms. Judgment for the plaintiff. Please pay him right now". "Okay"

I fail to see the inherent violence in that.

"Insure Domestic Tranquility". Is part of that an establishment of a police force? Yes. But it also involves making sure that territories are clear in what their boundaries are, that fair tariffs are enforced, etc.

"Secure the Blessings of Liberty" -- this means to protect the people from a repressive government by a system of limitations to government power. No violence here, either.

So, defending the populace? Yes, but not necessarily from outside forces, and not necessarily by or from violence. (And of course we didn't cover "Promote the General Welfare", which even you apparently concede has nothing to do with defense nor violence) (but which does have to do with having people of different skills work together for the betterment of all, my point. )

[Mr. Bones]

The problem is not that people make hostile laws, it's that people kill for others without question. History is full of hostile laws. In England, poaching on the King's land was punishable by death. That's no different than the laws of the Stone Knights or Blackrocks. The difference is, in the real world, the poacher would be protected by his peers, not mobbed upon by absolutely everyone as soon as the King got wind that someone shot a deer without permission. Characters in Cantr gleefully skewer anyone hunted by another character. Guilt is assumed, and even if guilt is in fact, it seems guilt is enough of a crime on it's own (i.e., you're guilty of something, so I can get away with killing you, even if I don't think what you did is wrong).

I think it's simply because it's a quick adrenaline rush in an otherwise slow-paced world.

True, this has always irritated me about the game. I've had characters that were on the run for something that happened in one town, and upon arrival in another, all it takes is the guy saying they are guilty and the mob jumps in. It's strange that people will do that in Cantr without even knowing any of the facts. In real life nobody would get involved in that if someone just came along and started making accusations, especially not kill someone over it. The main problem is lax judicial systems in Cantr. Some towns have none at all, it's just kill whomever the town leader says too without question. In some cases it's a system where there may be a trial of sorts, but the outcome is just decided on opinion, not actual evidence or proof. This will remain true as long as Cantr is nothing but city states with five people in each one, there's really no room for serious government and policies in these. But there are a few places that are finally starting to evolve a more sophisticated system for government, including judicial process. I have a feeling those places are going to fun to RP in, and thankfully I have characters in the ones I'm thinking of.

[Doug R.]

The fact that there is no mechanism for "proof" is a serious obstacle to justice. All evidence is he said/she said. A copy/pasted turn report should not be taken as fact (though, sadly, is for the most part).

[SumBum]

Part of the problem with establishing a judicial system is that there is no way in Cantr to present evidence other than eye-witness accounts. There's no fingerprints left behind, no cameras, nothing beyond they said/they said. I HATE when people hand over event logs as "proof". They're so easily edited that I can't understand why anyone would accept it as solid evidence. Besides, it's far more interesting to hear the char's account of things from their own perspective.

I agree that many chars, even the timid ones, will jump to assist when someone says "kill them!" Blame it on mob mentality? I don't know. Another issue is that a char can steal in one town, claim they've learned their lesson then walk down the road and do it again. There's no criminal record so the town where the crime is committed is burdened with the choice of letting this individual go and possibly terrorize other towns, or put a permanent stop to it right then. Some of my chars who oppose violence have been put in that difficult position and in the more heinous situations reluctantly opted to kill the offender. It really pissed me off that those other chars forced mine to make such a decision but it was either that or risk the next town having people harmed. There's very little accountability unless you send people to monitor the criminal along their path.

Edit: Or just...What Doug said while I was typing.

[Pilot]

My characters have been involved in trials in the past and unless players are willing to play along it can become really boring and problematic, but if they do it's an experience worth living.

I understand most will say using log events are of bad taste but that's what mechanics give us and when needed, ask at least those of 2 different characters to avoid falsifications.

In Spanish zone, mob justice is very rare and haven't seen it for years.

What in my experience is more common are players to get pissed when their characters get caught breaking rules and refusing to rp the process and that is what at the end they get killed or leave to die locked up.

[Mr. Bones]

The fact that there is no mechanism for "proof" is a serious obstacle to justice. All evidence is he said/she said. A copy/pasted turn report should not be taken as fact (though, sadly, is for the most part).

There is no DNA or fingerprints, but there can be physical evidence. Just checking a body can show which type of weapon was used. Viewing damage from an assault complaint (to the indvidual) can determine if the damage could have been reasonably inflicted by the defendant. Stolen items can be recovered, and in some cases they may onlly have the specific quantity specified in the report, which can be incriminating. Then yes, witnesses. Society had gotten along for thousands of years without all the modern technology we have today like forensics and what not, this never stopped ancient civilizations from having judicial systems. They just used what they had, and much of what they had is similar to what's available in Cantr right now. It doesn't have to be all CSI Miami and all that for Cantr to have some form of justice systems. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade as the saying goes.

What in my experience is more common are players to get pissed when their characters get caught breaking rules and refusing to rp the process and that is what at the end they get killed or leave to die locked up.

I've seen this too plenty of times. They would rather kill off the character than do some time in jail, especially when they are newspawns and really don't care for the characters well being too much. It's sad though, because I have been involved with the judicial process in Cantr with people willing to RP, and like you I thought it was fun and rewarding, a big break from the monotonous routine of mining hematite and that sort of thing. When someone is actually awaiting trial, it can stir up excitement in town, even if it's just a few days worth.

[Jaxon]

People don't care if their character dies off if they are caught committing a crime because usually they have nothing to live for.

Cantr needs to have more interactive societies that are based upon WANTING people to live. This will encourage people to build relationships and not want to lose their character. I think mutually assured defense is a good way to get this result. Obviously, people disagree, but something must be done to get town leaders to care more about building up their society.

[Chris]

Cantr needs to have more interactive societies that are based upon WANTING people to live.

I agree. I think that having 15 characters makes many people treat at least some them as disposable and also see others' characters as disposable.