Battlesuit exoskeleton. (dumb idea that maybe isn't)

[Crosshair]

Primitive Battle Exoskeltons are where it's at for real American men and women, which we're simulating in Cantr..

I'm British thankyou very much.

I think armour is much more reasonable...

[Dudel]

Calling someone what they are is not a personal attack. It is a statement of fact.

Dudel, please stop the pointless personal attacks. Calling people trolls because you do not like their idea is terrible forum etiquette.
Knowing that the people posting have been members for years, and have shown they actually care about Cantr by forum posts... At that point calling someone a troll either means; you distrust everyone, are a complete idiot, or just want to ignore a persons argument and count them worthless.
None of these reflect well on you or the forum.
Please don't resort to the level of common politicians. Mud throwing is only fun for them.

Also note that very very statement earlier of "If this gets rejected I'm just going to suggest it again" is, in itself, a trolls statement. As well as suggesting I like "Cantr to be my doll house" which is not the case if you read more than your own threads. You can not "discredit me away".

Thank you very much, troll.

If I was going for personal attacks, I'd just call him an asshat then move on.

Back on topic:

I think armour is much more reasonable...

Lower level tech armor i could get behind provided it didn't get into plate armor or add to much of a drastic change to what is already here. That would, then, not be much different than the original suggestion except it would not require as many restrictions.

[Cogliostro]

The restrictions are the salt and beauty of it. Without them, nothing strategically new would have been added, nothing unbalanced, and nothing made more exciting. "I'll be taking a bit less damage. Big deal." And it would really not be worth the time spent on putting it in, just making the goofy cantr-fights take even longer then they already do.

When someone pointed out earlier that there is no place for armor, that's exactly what they meant.

[GPark]

I don't like this idea one bit.

I agree completely. I don't have a long, drawn-out explanation either, but I don't care for this idea and I feel that it would be damaging to the game environment on several levels.

[Cogliostro]

I've taken the time to update the OP with clarifications and the consolidated ideas that have come up via discussion, which may well change your final impression about the whole suggestion. Therefore, could the naysayers please take the time to formulate their specific concerns based on that updated post and publish them too, for everyone's perusal.

[Mitch79]

Read it, hate the idea...sorry.

[BZR]

:D

That's exactly my opinion about it

[GPark]

I've taken the time to update the OP with clarifications and the consolidated ideas that have come up via discussion, which may well change your final impression about the whole suggestion. Therefore, could the naysayers please take the time to formulate their specific concerns based on that updated post and publish them too, for everyone's perusal.

I'm sorry, but I just think this concept is worthless. I don't have time to write a detailed 20-point manifesto arguing against it, but I don't think it's necessary at all. Many people have given far more complete lists of reasons why this is bad idea so rather than repeating them, I'll simply associate myself with those remarks and simply say that it should be pretty clear to everyone by now that while combat is an element of Cantr it quite clearly isn't the most important one.

[Cogliostro]

Well, no. People haven't. What people have done is panic and get their panties in a knot thinking about all the things that could now happen to their established towns and power-structures, if some evildoing empire or group got a hold of some battlesuits and went on a rampage.

But that's what people always do in my threads and such people are not useful contributors. Come now, you're only being asked to give your specific reasons, or example scenarios where you can see the suggestion being really bad and falling on its face in the Cantr world. So that we can all discuss them together and determine whether your feelings are justified.

[GPark]

So that we can all discuss them together and determine whether your feelings are justified.

That actually made me laugh out loud. Forgive me for not submitting my feelings to you in hopes that you'll justify them for me. I don't like the idea, and that's good enough for me.

[Piscator]

Why do you always start implying that it's the other person's fault if they don't like your ideas? You stated yourself that it is probably a dumb idea so why do you get upset if people agree?

[bobbogum]

Back to the plate armor, why did they not just have armor as clothing, nothing to do with added defense but for role playing purposes?

[Cogliostro]

Piscator: Because I've had a difficult abusive childhood. I'm very open to getting all your hatemail and inquiries into my personal character via PM. Let's please focus on the topic at hand, guys.

Useless non-contributors such as GPark have always posted in my threads to say they don't like the suggestion, that's a fact of life. You can tell them apart from reasonable people, because they are always reluctant to disclose their actual reasons, hiding behind lame excuses such as "I have no time". If someone has nothing to add besides vague personal dislike, then one post should certainly suffice them for that!

[GPark]

Useless non-contributors such as GPark have always posted in my threads to say they don't like the suggestion, that's a fact of life. You can tell them apart from reasonable people, because they are always reluctant to disclose their actual reasons, hiding behind lame excuses such as "I have no time". If someone has nothing to add besides vague personal dislike, then one post should certainly suffice for that!

You want more than vague personal dislike? How about concrete personal disgust? Your suggestion is stupid (all of your suggestions that I've read have been stupid) and you're too insecure to take criticism. You want "actual reasons?" Here you go:

1. Cantr is a society simulator, not a combat simulator. Items that do nothing but increase combat and create "arms races" are counter to Cantr's intent.

2. Your claim that battle suits will promote roleplay is ridiculous. They'll simply be used in the same "slice, hack, shoot, collect the loot" way that many currently engage in combat.

3. While many things in Cantr are anachronistic introducing battle suits without first introducing the things required to power and make functional such a machine is illogical.

4. Introducing full battle suits without first introducing armor seems like putting the cart before the horse.

5. If these were implemented certain towns/islands would likely ignore them completely while others would degenerate into attempting to build as many as possible and creating the same stalemate we currently see, just at a higher resource cost.

6. It's stupid to need help putting them on and people would likely never cede so much authority that way. Say there's a leader you don't like? Help him put on the suit then hide inside until he starves to death.

7. People without suits should have something beyond "almost no chance" in this scenario

I think 7 is quite enough. Are you happy now? Are my feelings "justified?" Or am I still just a "useless non-contributor"? If anyone in this scenario can be told "apart from reasonable people" it's definitely you.

[Cogliostro]

I do appreciate the effort, GPark. You've shown that you're not a useless non-contributor by doing this! If only everybody did so, in a clear logical way like yours, our discussions would be incredibly more productive.


GPARK: Cantr is a society simulator, not a combat simulator. Items that do nothing but increase combat and create "arms races" are counter to Cantr's intent.

Says who? All the societies we know in the real world are inconcievable without dynamic power structures (maintained by force). If you wish to continue this line of argument ("Combat/Power/Force is not important to how societies work"), we can try in a separate thread of the General forum.

GPARK: Your claim that battle suits will promote roleplay is ridiculous. They'll simply be used in the same "slice, hack, shoot, collect the loot" way that many currently engage in combat.

The claim was that the suits will lock battlesuit-ed players in place for the duration of combat. You clearly missed that. One of the big problems with roleplay during combat is that no one wants to sit around and be exposed to being hit - removing this ability to run away (for the battlesuit people) was what I referred to as the "forces more roleplaying" aspect. Players who cannot hide in a building and are facing their adversaries the whole time have no choice but stay around, and that gives them a chance to at least swear dirty at each other.

GPARK: While many things in Cantr are anachronistic introducing battle suits without first introducing the things required to power and make functional such a machine is illogical. Introducing full battle suits without first introducing armor seems like putting the cart before the horse.

No power is required for heavy battle armour (think plate). I have already hinted that the suggestion does not need to depend on the tech level. It's just (IMHO) a lot cooler that way, which one look at Turtle_Jay's pics can easily prove to a person with imagination. So, it can be heavy battle armour or battlesuit exoskelton, that doesn't matter, so long as the key restrictions applying to it (can't get out on your own, etc.) remain. That's why Dudel hates me now and says I am a Troll. Man, nobody gets my jokes and I am going to need more therapy for this forum stuff.

GPARK: It's stupid to need help putting them on and people would likely never cede so much authority that way. Say there's a leader you don't like? Help him put on the suit then hide inside until he starves to death. People without suits should have something beyond "almost no chance" in this scenario

You can put the suit on yourself (still takes 2-3 Cantr hours), but you're right, it can't be taken off. If your buddies abandon you or are killed, you will starve inside. Tinman style. I say this is cool, not stupid! However, in reality it will probably never happen, as who would pass up the chance to paw up an expensive battlesuit? The warrior might be talked into giving it up in exchange for their life, or just starved and relieved of it naturally. That is what people without suits have, in this scenario, and it's a major advantage for them.

I've addressed these concerns now, but there is one that I couldn't say anything about because I don't understand it:
GPARK: If these were implemented certain towns/islands would likely ignore them completely while others would degenerate into attempting to build as many as possible and creating the same stalemate we currently see, just at a higher resource cost.

What is this all about, can you explain more? Or can somebody else see what is being referred to and get traction on this?