A Tribute to Rigel Kent

[Joshuamonkey]

"How are you today, my love? *smiles*" day after day for months and years, while you set up smelter projects for your indentured newspawns.

Sounds like a happy ending.

I am not disputing this in any way. It is inevitable when the game designer has effectively left the fold and left the sheep to herd themselves.

Actually, he's still around. What we really need is new sheep and new shepherds.

[joo]

Rigel Kent isn't a rouge! he's more of a dull, greenish-grey colour...

[Cogliostro]

It's actually very fitting that in the thread dedicated to Rigel Kent we'd tackle the big newbie-killing problem that a lot of old-time people here are still in complete denial about. Reason being, Rigel was the opposite of a failed newbie, the system could not kill him no matter how much it killed him. He played for a relatively long time, left a mark on the world, and caused much hilariousness in the process. So he had some failings in the spelling and CRB department, who here is perfect though?

Guys, don't come at me with all your success stories. I have tons of my own, from rags to riches and everything inbetween. That's really not the point, I mean look at us. We're still playing. We still care about the game. The newbies that we "kill" by ignoring the problem aren't and don't. They're gone. The game failed to do anything for them, when that should have been its number one priority, intriguing and keeping the newbie players so they stay and bring some part of themselves to the game and enrich the world. Hate him all you want, but Rigel Kent did! He's an exceptional "newbie".

What about the other 80% or more of them who aren't? Let me draw you a very simple picture, this is sort of like an EEG sampling what is happening in the newbie brain as they are introduced to Cantr, learn about some of the game mechanics and take their first few steps in the world:

"Nice! Interesting!"

"Wait, it will take how long? Well I guess I do want the job. I will earn the things I think I need."

Key: Why does the newbie think he or she needs them? Because they think they will be able to do stuff when they have the things.

Gradually it dawns on them that they won't, actually, be able to do anything.

"Huh. Huhhhhhh...."

Then they click the X, and are gone forever. That's a player we just lost to our own shortsightedness. Sure, they may have not been an amazing roleplayer yet, as many RP-elitists are quick to observe. But if the point of the game mechanics is to support roleplayers in creating an exciting world for our characters live in, then those same mechanics should have done the little part that depends on them to hand-hold the newbie a little. To encourage them with small achievements, with things that are innate to this one character and that make the world (crucial point!) want them. Currently the world doesn't give a flying chicken about its newspawns, they have nothing to offer except cheap, expendable labour. This is wrong, guys! Very wrong.

How exactly to solve it is another matter, but let's at least stop being in total denial and recognize that we have the problem and what the problem is. It doesn't matter that my chars are doing alright, and yours even better. Open your eyes and look at the majority of newspawns and new-ish characters in towns around you, and you will have to admit, maybe grudgingly, maybe with horror, that I was exactly right. They are all suffering terribly from a lack of any ability to do anything. They will live on for 20 days or 40 days, working in their stupid job that your character has set them into, and then they're going to heart-break out of this pointless, overcomplicated world in which they're not wanted, powerless, and have nothing tangible to look forward to. Yeah, if they were amazing roleplayers, they could've broken all the rules, they could've made amazing things out of themselves and the situation. But they weren't, guys. If you prefer, they weren't "as good as us", but we shouldn't be gloating, since we failed them. We should have, the game should have, shown them how to be amazing roleplayers, and the mechanics should have guided all of us in that same direction by offering endless possibilities and opportunities.

Instead of that, we're preoccupied with making sure nothing can ever threaten our "investment" in our longtime characters. Boring! More than that- Stupid! Without the fresh blood of the newbies, the game is nothing but a swamp full of fat old toads, each sitting in their own spot with a small plantation young swamplings extracting swampfilth for them. My spot has more resources than yours, what a success I am!

[Arenti]

Actually in the towns my chars lead he makes sure to involve all newspawns...... One even made a guide for newspawns. Actually in one town of my chars there is only one sleeper well two now.... but that char hasn't said anything after spawning even after she was greeted a minute after spawning... I think also that it's important to keep newspawns excited and to see that they have a future with that char... One of my chars just gives leather clothing to newspawns.. standard without asking anything for it... I always try to keep chars interested by offering them after spawning a future, well asking if they want to do something... Surprisingly none of them know what to do... I ask them each few days how they are and what they need..... Make newspawns feel important and wanted.

[Caesar]

...working in their stupid job that your character has set them into, and then they're going to heart-break out of this pointless, overcomplicated world in which they're not wanted, powerless, and have nothing tangible to look forward to...

Sounds a bit like real life.
Still, I am myself perhaps still a newbie. I think most of those players leave because there is depth in the game. A lot of gamers play hack 'n slash games, or shooters, or other pretty mindless games like travian. They don't really see it the way we do.

I've experienced it myself.
I introduced about four people to Cantr, explained it to them, helped them, guided them.

And they still quit. Why..? Because they weren't immediately heroes. It was too slow for them.


Why adjust the game to lure more players when we like it how it is..? Cantr is supposed to be a slow game. A roleplaying game.

It isn't even a real game. It is just a bunch of tweeky mechanisms, surrounded by a big amount of love and compassion to keep it going.

[Arenti]

I also agree on that many towns and their leaders don't seem to really care about newspawns unless those newspawns say they want to join that group.... Especially new players will have trouble with people not really caring about their newspawns.

[Joshuamonkey]

Hate him all you want, but Rigel Kent did! He's an exceptional "newbie".

It seems to me that he failed, because he's no longer here...

The game failed to do anything for them, when that should have been its number one priority, intriguing and keeping the newbie players so they stay and bring some part of themselves to the game and enrich the world.

One thing I like about Cantr is that it draws in good people. You have to be careful when talking about adjusting Cantr for the new players. Instead, what we need to do is tell Cantr about more people. This probably doesn't go for everyone, but not once have I met someone in real life who already knew about Cantr before me telling them. I haven't even met someone anywhere else on the Internet who's known about it. (not including Epic Mafia, I found out about it from Cantr players, and I didn't actually meet anyone I didn't know)
This isn't the same for a certain other game I play.

Currently the world doesn't give a flying chicken about its newspawns, they have nothing to offer except cheap, expendable labour. This is wrong, guys! Very wrong.

The reason they come into the world is to work for you for a short time, increase your resource pile a little, and then the player quits and is never heard of again. Let's be realistic, that's what happens to 80% or more of our new players!

I liked this, because it's true sometimes, taking out the exxaggeration, and I'm probably guilty of it. However, my characters are so happy to have a new person that they'll give them a bunch of stuff and make them their partner if they make it past that initial period.

I care about newspawns a lot, and I think others do also. All of a sudden there's more people in a town and things get interesting. I admit there does seem to be a cycling effect, with new people lasting a couple decades (or a few years) and then they die and then new people come along. And then there I am, surrounded by dead bodies. These things happen when you live forever...

[Dudel]

The problem I see is that Cogliostro wishes for Cantr to appeal to a more general audience, which is good for its "lively hood" but at the same time... that no longer makes the game "niche", which is what appeals to those that are here.

Rigel's characters were destructive for destructive sake... there was nothing to them, nothing tangible and simply put, he was hacky slashy.

Cantr should NOT discourage his behavior, however, yes. The issue with Rigel was NOT his in character behavior but his OOC. In character Rigel's characters are just as acceptable as yugo's and Shadowwolfs... also, they are needed. (If one is gracious enough to remove the CRBing he constantly did)

HOWEVER, again again again... the rudeness OF THE PLAYER created bias to himself. Rigel WAS his characters, which isn't bad if your not a total prick who thinks he's god's gift to man. That type of CHARACTER BEHAVIOR, is 100% okay by me but when the PLAYER becomes NOTHING MORE then a "rouge", as you put it and I'm using the word on a loose scale, it is irritating.

"Newbies" can be,do,etc, whatever they wish with Cantr provided they STOP AND THINK... but the real draw is the community.

Look if you REMOVE the community and the forum... Cantr, as a whole, drops a GOOD CHUNK of its fun. It becomes a bland boring and generally blank RP room with little tangible things to do... BUT when you start making things more "tangible" and "real" you start to lose the original idea of Cantr. It starts looking like a typical MMO + RP and, quite frankly, I do not wish for this.

And these "Doll House" comments are straight up annoying me. Cantr is NOT all puppies and rainbow farts! I've heard and seen via third party, some NASTY STUFF.

Also, Satrap (I'm resting my firm belief that you are indeed this character... which is cool... to a point), plenty of characters encourage others to participate in more then "gather, sleep, repeat" but it gets SOOO TAXING on a player to greet EVERY FREAKING NEWSPAWN, visitor or random dude that "pops up" in your character's town. Sometimes you almost wish they'd not have spawned at all as the risk is they are 50% likely to just try and take everything.

I've a character who full heartily gives of himself and the things he's obtained. Sees no value in them... its just "stuff"... and really, a lot of my characters are like this to a point. "Its just stuff"... Cantr isn't about "stuff". HECK, I have even left thieves etc go provided they returned healing and regular food... clearly I wasn't using the rest of that "stuff".

Most new players have a mentality from other games that the "stuff" actually means something. In Cantr... only the foods do, really. Everything else... kinda pointless, unless you/your character fears or wants death. (Weapons and Shields)

Also, that is kinda your point. "Stuff needs a value"... but then you make "getting stuff" EVEN WORSE! Now one ACTUALLY NEEDS THIS "stuff" or the game don't work and (See FTO) THAT'S BAD!

Cantr is a very niche game and will not appeal to most gamers. It is more, and should be advertised as such, an RP "vassal". This means it should be posted on PBP sites or other locations where its "about the RP".

Problem is even among those groups, as I did that at one time, you get the "Oh this is a game" mentality... while the "other thing" was actually RPing. The thing is, though, that Cantr and its community DO NOT advertise themselves as actual games... at least shouldn't. (Neither should FTO)

Also, I'm "one of those" that likes FPSs and "Hacky Slashy" games... I play Western RPGs and some JRPGs... as well as some racing, etc.. I'm all OVER the place... and AS A GAME, Cantr DROPS its hat and says, "Whats gaming?" However, there isn't REALLY a game so much an RP environment. Which is slightly contradictory to my "Cantr and FTO are games comment" but... that comes from people saying "its about the RP" and not RPing.


Short
1) Cantr, on the simplest of levels is a game.
2) Cantr drops the "I'm a normal game" once the player engrosses themselves in the "world" (AKA: Ignoring ticks, etc) but still sits on its "You need healing food etc, micromanage" basics.
3) This is difficult for people who have never done this... so they quit without trying as most are NOT used to "I'm not a normal game" but once they do, it becomes an addiction.
4) Cantr is slow paced. Sometimes a "sleepy person" is just not playing today. Slow paced is not fun for most "gamers".
5) The Cantr front page EXPLAINS ALL THAT!
6) Being a prick shouldn't make the game "more fun" but should also not be restricted and/or discouraged.

[SumBum]

It's actually very fitting that in the thread dedicated to Rigel Kent we'd tackle the big newbie-killing problem that a lot of old-time people here are still in complete denial about.

Kinda thought that was the intent of your original post, which parallels your other topic about this subject.

I'm sure others have already said this: I tend to think that it's not a matter of keeping every person who subscribes to Cantr, but rather finding the right kind of people to subscribe. The majority of gamers are used to the hack n slash type stuff of WoW. Maybe I'm over-stereotyping there, but no matter what the programmers do with Cantr, it will never hold the attention of those gamers.

My first character was a disaster for the first decade of his life. I almost quit several times, but the challenge was partly what kept me coming back.

[CantrFreak]

I liked Rigel's characters. I've only met his annoying thieves I think, but they were interesting. He just used CRB too much, knowing things he shouldn't have known and yelling at my OOCly going on about "stupid American's" or something and then godmoding.

[*Wiro]

He managed to set himself free and played the game to the fullest potential of it, without becoming a dull resource-gathering or plantation-overseeing drone somewhere.

Yes, he did indeed play the game. And that's it. Playing, not roleplaying.

I didn't like his characters. He didn't roleplay, the pieces of texts his characters blurted out were hardly readable, he didn't care about what was being said, he didn't care about the situation, and he used IC things to annoy people OOCly.

So no, Rigel is not a good roleplayer. Good roleplayers don't do the things mentioned above. I don't see why there's any need for praise or bashing, or in short: this topic. Everyone knows how he broke the CR over and over again and pissed off a lot of people. That's it. No other part of the story to it, really.

[chase02]

Problem is even among those groups, as I did that at one time, you get the "Oh this is a game" mentality... while the "other thing" was actually RPing. The thing is, though, that Cantr and its community DO NOT advertise themselves as actual games... at least shouldn't. (Neither should FTO)

[...]

1) Cantr, on the simplest of levels is a game.
2) Cantr drops the "I'm a normal game" once the player engrosses themselves in the "world" (AKA: Ignoring ticks, etc) but still sits on its "You need healing food etc, micromanage" basics.

Hallelujah Dudel! FTO and Cantr advertise themselves as games and always will.

You and I are going to have a lot of fun with Reveri.es.

[Dudel]

Problem is even among those groups, as I did that at one time, you get the "Oh this is a game" mentality... while the "other thing" was actually RPing. The thing is, though, that Cantr and its community DO NOT advertise themselves as actual games... at least shouldn't. (Neither should FTO)

[...]

1) Cantr, on the simplest of levels is a game.
2) Cantr drops the "I'm a normal game" once the player engrosses themselves in the "world" (AKA: Ignoring ticks, etc) but still sits on its "You need healing food etc, micromanage" basics.

Hallelujah Dudel! FTO and Cantr advertise themselves as games and always will.

You and I are going to have a lot of fun with Reveri.es.

Indeed, chase. I was hoping that when I finally talk about Reveri.es it would go into my "Art and Writing section" rather then the "PBBG" section... but we will see.

But I know for a fact I will not stamp the "RPG" label on it. Neither Cantr of FTO are what most call an "RPG"... or at least what I think of when I think "RPG" so I don't use that label for them.

And like I said, "The only problem with Rigel was his OOC behavior and CRBing." If you are gracious enough to remove those HUGE FREAKING FACTORS... he was "just another baddie" among the Cantr world.

[chase02]

A tribute to cantr's best roleplayer: alright, let's share some of his highlights shall we? Like a green version of "this is your life"!

I'll start:

"ok solisten up no oe told me what i missed who is good or bad. so here is the deal you move you get shot. so just sit tight and keep doing what you are nd if you can tell me everthing you know. "

Now your turn!

[*Wiro]

Why not just post the full version anyway, Chase?

2610-1: Titus efficiently kills you using a crossbow.
2610-1: You say: "I'm Dory. The one who locked Amelia and many others up."
2610-1: Titus says: "Not a problem miss always nice to kill some slavers..we did kill them right"
2610-1: Titus says: "harsh no you be around people you dont know armed to the teeth and tel me how you would feel and lets not forget slavers. so yea deal with it"
2610-1: Resyc says:"*blinks* That's a bit much, don't you think? At any rate, to ease your paranoid mind, I'm Resyc. I spawned here just last night."
2610-1: Amelia Donovan says: "*she looks at him wide-eyed for a moment and looks down embarrassed* Y-yeah, I guess so. Sorry. "
2610-1: Titus says: "names Titus pullo."
2610-1: Titus says: "I am guessing your the reason I am here today"
2610-1: Amelia Donovan says: "*she looks at the man quietly for a second before leaning back into Adam giving his cheek a light kiss*"
2610-1: Titus says: "thank the gods your here..what I miss all I see if peole hurt some armed"
2610-1: Titus says: "ok solisten up no oe told me what i missed who is good or bad. so here is the deal you move you get shot. so just sit tight and keep doing what you are nd if you can tell me everthing you know. "
2610-1: You arrived at Blaman Mountains South.