Religion

[formerly known as hf]

I have been away for a few days, and can not summon the energy to read-up the last few pages in full. We seem to be on the subject of the creation of the universe?

In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move.

Anyways, I think west should be declared the outright winner (this is a competition, right?). His one-liners are the only posts which make sense throughout this.

[west]

Hey, what about my long ones? *sob* I thought they were pretty clear.

[Pie]

HAH!!! I can beat that one EASY!!!

Meh...

[Joshuamonkey]

To Joshua Monkey and Nalaris, I'd just like to point out to everyone that the two polls that you posted on this forum don't even offer an option for those of us who don't believe in any religion.

OK, please stop with that! It was a simple mistake, and I'm sorry about that.

Joshuamonkey wrote:

You can't expect everyone to know about 'one true religion', and believe it. A lot has to do with how someone grows up.

I agree with you on that one.

Wow, someone actually agreed with me.

[Stan]

Man, miss a day miss a lot. I don't think I'll have time to catch up soon. Travels await!

[Pie]

You know what? AGAIN i say we should just DROP THIS!!!

It's not going to do any good(caus I'm so smart!!! )

But really.... lets drop this.

[Joshuamonkey]

Drop what?

[KiNG KiLL]

Perhaps this will be offensive to you... and perhaps one shouldn't laugh at someone else's death or misfortune... but I couldn't stop myself from smiling when reading about a church collapsing in the midst of a ceremony. People praying to their precious god, asking him to forgive them their sins... and the next thing... *SPLAT*

Now that's God to me... kills his loyal servants. I still don't get why people LIKE god if he indeed exists. He's just there. Doing some bad stuff. Doing some good stuff. Either way you can't change shit. And you know it. But keep praying if that makes you feel good.

If I go to hell for questioning god and his purpose, do you think he's a good god then? I'm not taking sides here, I'm just questioning stuff. And the penalty for doing so is eternal suffering...? Sweet.

[kinvoya]

"Like flies to wanton boys are we to the gods. They kill us for thier sport."

Shakes-a-spear

[Pie]

*shakes his head* you know what? I think thats a little ironic too.

now, lets look at three worlds.... one were god gives men free will, one were god dosen't, and one were god does everything for someone.

#1, the one WITH free will. It is a world of science, of expedition, of desition. People go to school, they go to work, they do science experements, they live, they love, they make mistakes. A preacher builds a church on a place were the foundation isn't very good. Eventually it decays and the building falls doun. Now, it wasn't god's fault, it might be the preachers fault... but who knows? maby it was the realter who sold him that church.

#2 a place WITHOUT free will. Tis a place of nothing. People don't interact, they don't question anything, they don't love, they don't live, they just DO things. they farm, they kill cows. Now, a preacher builds a church on a place where the foudation isn't very good. He does this becous god wanted him to do it that way, and he couldn't do anything becous god didn't give him free will. It's god's fault.

#3 a place were god does everything. AND he gives people free will. Eventually, a country, such as.... lets say, america, for instance, asks for a satilight with light bending technolagy, wich can make a sheild around anything at all, with any space at all. There is this disagreenment between it and another country... lets say china, for instance. It moves in, and takes over china, wich its superior technolagy, and kills many people, and in the meantime, a tank fires a shot at a church on acadent, and it explodes the church before they even notice what hapened. now isn't that ironic?

[Nalaris]

It is much easier to belive in Aliens and UFO for me, then in any "god", even I can believe in Däniken, that religions was created because of Aliens, which were called gods in past, and they even could made process evolution of humans going faster by genetic enegineering, but not "god" bullshit. You can go to your "paradise" with your theories about god, but do not convice those who do not believe in that bullshit, because you do not have any arguments, and science is against you.

And simple, any religion is just a much bigger SECT which is trying to wash a brain of good freethinkers without any effect. That's all. I can make the same religion bullshit for brainwash someone, but why I have to manipulate someone like that???

You're one of those conspiracy people, aren't you? There's more evidence for God than aliens. Aliens, based off evidence alone and not personal experience, have about the same likelihood as God, just slightly lower. For both there's witnesses and non-conclusive physical evidence. The only difference is that a lot more people claim to have witnessed God than to have witnessed aliens. And I'm one of the people who can feel some part of God's power, or of the Holy Ghost's power, or of whatever power I'm feeling. And there's laboratory evidence that aliens may be hallucinations caused by strange conditions rarely encountered in nature. Am I the only one who finds it strange that the only people who 'remember' alien encounters that haven't been proven wrong or nearly proven wrong got the memories from counseling and, sometimes, hypnotism?

Now, as for your blatant insults against religion, 1.If you think I haven't had moments of doubt than you're quite misinformed, but my faith has been confirmed when it counted including, by the way, in moments when the evidence for aliens seemed tremendous. Fear of aliens has also attacked me at some of these times. A quick prayer later and it all evaporated.
2.Do you want to know what the evidence is that all religions are working towards the same goal of depriving people of the will to think? Zippo. What're you, drunk? By following the teachings of my religion, people are happier. Period. Not just because of God's support, either. Even if my religion were a lie, I'd still follow its teachings, because they lead to happiness. Pure and simple.
3.The 'international' edition of the Bible has probably been edited so that it doesn't offend people as much as the original would. Naturally the truth is going to hurt people who base their lifestyles off of the Devil's lies, but I doubt the producers of this were thinking about that. I have no personal experience with this version of the Bible, so I have no authority whatsoever other than that I can, on occasion, make a good educated guess.

All right Antichrist, let's get to work on you. Mormonism in its purity has never hurt anyone. Ever. Mormons have hurt people, but not the church as a whole. A prophet has never made a decision that has hurt the church or the world. Gee, almost sounds like they're taking orders from a guy who knows exactly what's going to happen next, huh? There is no control involved in the church. There is order. There must be order for there to be prosperity, but there is no 'believe or ELSE!' sentiment. When we preach, we focus on the positive. After all, we're one of the few Christian churches that believes that non-believers won't go to Hell, a fact that Pie himself uncovered in the Bible (three degree's of reward, you say? You mean like Mormons believe in three degree's of reward?)

I never say they cause anything, rather they are caused by things.

So basically...they don't matter? At all?

HF, I did say things I shouldn't have, which is one of the reasons I posted that. If I personally say it then, for some reason, it makes it more likely for me to remember it and practice it. Also, West didn't say that, the writer of 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' did, and he was making a joke. The whole book was a joke, none of it making any sense.

I specifically put on 'disagree with all' which, by the way, means you disagree with all of them. Maybe the poll glitched and this didn't get in. I'm aware that atheists and agnostics (who believe that God is derived purely from the self and is therefore incapable of actually affecting the world and therefore...doesn't exist, logically...making them atheists...) exist and attempted to give them a place in this poll. It's not my fault if the forum messed it up.

Who knows what freakish perversion of reality those people were worshipping? And besides, King Kill, if you step out of your 'once you're dead it's over' perspective and into the people in that churches 'once you're dead you get judged and go to Heaven or Hell' perspective, than the best place to die is at worship, the moment after you've repented and been forgiven of your sins. My perspective is actually 'once you're dead you get judged and go to one of four places based on how good you've been', for the record.

Joshua, he's talking about the whole debate. I'm getting kind of sick of it too, but on the upside I'm not losing anymore.

I can't remember, has anyone provided scientific evidence as to why God can't have started the Big Bang? Not to mention seeing as the Big Bang is just a theory, isn't putting weight in it a bit unintelligent? With God I recieved confirmation and in times of doubt I continue to recieve it. What does the Big Bang give you?

[west]

Joshua, he's talking about the whole debate. I'm getting kind of sick of it too, but on the upside I'm not losing anymore.

I can't remember, has anyone provided scientific evidence as to why God can't have started the Big Bang? Not to mention seeing as the Big Bang is just a theory, isn't putting weight in it a bit unintelligent? With God I recieved confirmation and in times of doubt I continue to recieve it. What does the Big Bang give you?

REPEAT AFTER ME: THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEFINITION OF THEORY!

A scientific theory is NOT an 'educated guess'.

"In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it often does in other contexts. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from and/or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations that is predictive, logical and testable."

And you're not winning, Nalaris. Nobody can win this debate. I think we're actually all losing, just by staying in it. I feel dumber already.

And you ask for scientific evidence that God can't have started the Big Bang. That's preposterous; you've obviously been ignoring at least half the thread. There is no way science can prove or disprove the existence of God(s). Science deals with observable, concrete evidence. There is no evidence for God, only inference based on foregone conclusions. Faith requires neither fact nor logic; science does not require faith. They're two different ways of looking at the same world. No, they're not at odds; they can co-exist in people or societies. But the instant you start judging one on the basis of the other, as you and some others insist on doing, you lose. Lose the debate, lose sight of the argument, lose objectivity, lose rationality. And we all lose because we have to listen to you ask the same questions for thirty pages, when they've been answered half-a-dozen times before.

[Nixit]

I am curious, though, because Nalaris: you claim to have felt the divine power many times in your life, and that has confirmed your belief in God and in Mormonism. Stan, you say you have felt similar feelings and so you believe as well. Dee, as well, you have said that your prays have been answered, and must obviously have felt this sort of divine power. No doubt millions and maybe billions feel this way also.

However, if all of these people have 'felt' this divine force, but many of them are from completely different religions and backgrounds, what does that say about this divine feeling? I'm not trying to disprove anything, because that would be futile and naive, but I am curious to all of your response on this.


EDIT: Not bad for a 2000th post.

[KVZ]

You're one of those conspiracy people, aren't you?

You know, one of my girl budies just call herself conspiracy. I like that, I agree... Any problem for you with that?

There's more evidence for God than aliens.

What evidences? Humbug! Show me those!

Aliens, based off evidence alone and not personal experience, have about the same likelihood as God, just slightly lower. For both there's witnesses and non-conclusive physical evidence.

I have my personal experiences. Wanna discuss those?

The only difference is that a lot more people claim to have witnessed God than to have witnessed aliens.

Even you heard about "Minority Raport" based on novel Philip K. Dick? That is no argument for me what you said. Brainwashing people about god is very easy. Look, in Poland there is one sect's radiostation which does brainwashing about god. Every wise Pole knows about that. Radio Marry (called also as radio which have snout, because it reads the same in Polish) with Father Director Rydzyk, but those mohair beret grandmas just believes in that humbug! Sic!

And I'm one of the people who can feel some part of God's power, or of the Holy Ghost's power, or of whatever power I'm feelin

That is your opinion, but my opinon can be that some Aliens can telepaticaly manipulate you making you believing in them, as they are god and holy ghost. What smart those aliens must be

And there's laboratory evidence that aliens may be hallucinations caused by strange conditions rarely encountered in nature.

Yeah, and I was born on LSD?

Am I the only one who finds it strange that the only people who 'remember' alien encounters that haven't been proven wrong or nearly proven wrong got the memories from counseling and, sometimes, hypnotism?

Yeah, I autohypnotised myself to contact them just for have more arguments against you... Wait... I just have big transmisions form them again...

Fear of aliens has also attacked me at some of these times. A quick prayer later and it all evaporated.

Yeah, Prayers Dept. always for your service

What're you, drunk? By following the teachings of my religion, people are happier. Period.

Can I quote Lenin about religion? It is opium for people

I can't remember, has anyone provided scientific evidence as to why God can't have started the Big Bang?

Oh, so god just cut the ribbon of the new factory? And who made it for him? Come on guy!

[the_antisocial_hermit]

However, if all of these people have 'felt' this divine force, but many of them are from completely different religions and backgrounds, what does that say about this divine feeling? I'm not trying to disprove anything, because that would be futile and naive, but I am curious to all of your response on this.


EDIT: Not bad for a 2000th post.

Something I kept trying to point out... Every religion, every person with such strong faith can provide examples and reasons for feeling that way and knowing the "truth" (as they have experienced it). Does it mean they're all right or all wrong? It will be a question to ponder until you are dead, because that's the only way you'll ever know.

But enough of this thread for me; west is right. There's no true evidence for or against such things, and theories are much more than mere 'educated guesses.' I would almost say that every religion (religious belief) is a theory, though based on less factual observation than spiritual observation.

And no, not bad at all, Nixit.