Cantr II Discussion Forum

A Dutch speaking character in Wirwarov uses OOC language knowledge for IC communication.
As far as I know he only has access to a very small dutch-english-german dictionary that surely could not help him to formulate the following sentence:

1491-0.10: Kleimar Stulf (a man in his twenties) zegt: „Gutentag dis ist das Niederländische Insel. Bitte brauchen Sie diesen wortenlist."

I'm not sure what the problem is. Is this a Dutch character speaking German too well in a German area?

It's a Dutch character in a Dutch town, speaking German too well to a German visitor.

Don't forget that German and Dutch are pretty close relatives. I never learned a word of Dutch in my life, but usually I'm able to read (simple) Dutch text without too much trouble, for example.

What the character said is actually really, really bad German, but understandable, about what you could probably expect from a native Dutch speaker who has been exposed to German for some time without ever really learning the language and, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't have Wirwarov quite a lot of German visitors?

I know there's some similarities between Dutch and German, but most words are not in the dictionary and they're not Dutch either.
The character is very young. He definately did not meet enough Germans to improve his German language skill to this level.

The only two words in his sentence that are in the available dictionary are "Gutentag" and "Insel". The rest is based on OOC knowledge of the German language.

OK, we'll look into it.

Oh come on, if a character is born with the knowledge of how to speak one language why can't he speak another? (I don't play him by the way, I'm not Dutch)

I think that it is stupid and reasonably petty trying to get someone done for a CRB for speaking a language too well

deadboy wrote:Oh come on, if a character is born with the knowledge of how to speak one language why can't he speak another? (I don't play him by the way, I'm not Dutch)

I think that it is stupid and reasonably petty trying to get someone done for a CRB for speaking a language too well

Because you only know the language you're spawned in. This has been pretty firmly established in CR conventional wisdom. By speaking too well, this player is potentially robbing this location of some interesting RP opportunities.

Doug R. wrote:Because you only know the language you're spawned in. This has been pretty firmly established in CR conventional wisdom. By speaking too well, this player is potentially robbing this location of some interesting RP opportunities.

I completely agree. However, Jos disagrees: http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=140016#140016

I do not know whether the PD is enforcing the languages rule based on Doug's argument or Jos's.

And if we could get a clear answer to this, I'll plug it in the wiki. Seriously, nowhere does it say that you're not supposed to understand the english speaking people (for the non-english, of course). And no, it doesn't follow naturally from the Capital Rule, even if I'm sure some would like to think so.

/Hellzon - wikiphile

I personally believe it is fine to emote in a mutually understood language, but when it comes to actually speaking, as Jos said, it's more fun to role play out learning the new language. That said, when players start complaining about someone ruining their fun, the PD tends to take such complaints seriously.

I wholeheartedly disagree, besides, if Jos says it is ok it must be

I think that cantrians come into the game with a certain knowledge, which is exactly the same amount of knowledge as the player has. If he is brought up knowing two languages the character knows two languages, if the player knows advanced maths (don't ask, it sounds a smart subject ) then the character would know advanced maths

That being said of course if the player wants to play a stupid character who knows no languages, or anything else at all, that's fine too

Doug R. wrote:I personally believe it is fine to emote in a mutually understood language, but when it comes to actually speaking, as Jos said, it's more fun to role play out learning the new language. That said, when players start complaining about someone ruining their fun, the PD tends to take such complaints seriously.

So, the official rule is "Language is a matter of whether someone complains"? 'Cause, you know, I would like something concrete...

Folks, Jos also at one point said cheaters make the game more interesting, so does that make it OK?

The game is full of gray areas of the Captial Rule where something might be allowable in one instance, and not allowable in another. That's what the PD is for, to interpret the rule on a case by case basis. Of course I welcome a full member of the PD to comment here to put this issue to rest.

Jos never said of cheating that "There is no rule that it is not allowed."

Emotes and OOC talk ought to be allowable in any language (within reason - if an OOC cabal of players uses an obscure language to give themselves an advantage, that's clearly not okay), even to the point of emoting in multiple languages - emote text is essentially OOC because the characters don't actually see the text, just the action it describes.