Cantr II Discussion Forum

I don't think this is too egregious, but Ness keeps making references to a changer, by which she clearly means changes in programming. She is making herself out as a visionary, but are characters even supposed to know that things have been changed? Recently she was making references to the name wipe, and now she is talking about repair times.

Yeah, I was just wondering about that too. The following is some text that character recently made:

1322-7: Ness says: "Before I came here, the Changer made a change so that the tools of war would be harder to maintain, and those of peace easier. That's the Changer's way of telling us not to hurt each other, but to help one another. *opens her eyes, still smiling* ...but I'm still not sure of Its will on shields."

1322-7: Ness says: "*closes her eyes, smiling as she speaks* the Changer changes things, keeping everything going as It wishes. It's where our knowing comes from, our dreams of changes to come. You had the dream too, didn't you *edit*? About the...the obscuration of knowledge... that we will lose our knowing of all places soon."

For as long as I've been playing, *roleplaying* any "supernatural" has not been prohibited. I mean, after all, there's a church of Jos --although this is clearly unrelated. As long as Ness isn't abusing bugs, changes, etc, I don't see why she can't play to them.

This comes from my first hand experience of over 700 days

(And no, I'm not the player of Ness. If I were the player, and if Ness was referring to the near future name wipe, I'd be weary of that exact detail there. But if a change has affected the character, there's no reason why not to refer to it, or give it a name, or a reason)

Playing to future changes, which some of this is, might be a bit sketchy though...

Also, church of Jos might have been frowned on if it were started now. A lot of things used to happen that aren't permissible anymore.

Talking about the repari times is not so bad, but she keeps talking about the name wipe, and that is clearly not something a character can know.

I personally think this is a very creative way to roleplay "supernatural" occurances. In real life, people who do (or think they do) experience miracles give this as evidence of God. The fact that our characters memories will be wiped should be explained in character. The problem in this particular case is that the character is "prophesying" since it hasn't occurred yet. But after it happens it should be fair game for roleplay in my opinion.

That is what I mean. But this whole Changer business, and knowing the future, that's not quite right.

Yeah, I was mostly concerned about her character's knowledge of the forthcoming name wipe, and I was under the impression that our characters aren't allowed to have that sort of ability.

Can we get an official position on this so that we all stop conjecturing?

RP-ing explanations for changes is fine... as long as they have ALREADY happened. RP-ing future changes (like the name wipe) shouldn't be done.

Jur.

Interesting take on the matter. I'd read it in exactly the opposite way. Let me explain.

1) Characters Cantr-wide are suddenly looking at roads and cities, IC, remembering these places actively, even though they already know the names, based on information they've obtained OOC at login.

That's using OOC info IC. That's a CR breach, and it's black and white. So we should be talking about searching the database for everyone who has done what Jos said to do, and handing them over to PD.

Preposterous, you say! Yes, it is. Jos expects people to deal with a game change, but doesn't want the players to lose out of a lot of presupposed knowledge. Doing exactly what he wants is a flagrant CR breach, however. How can one explain those actions in character?

-chance, which smacks of, oh, just leaves a bad taste in the mouth

-a dream
-a hunch

which are valid RP options, one would think. I've seen characters in many places coming outside to recall the road and city name, then wander back inside. Why did they do that? What does your character think when the 70 year old who -NEVER- ventures otuside suddenly wanders out, looks around, and pops back inside. Have your character ask him. What will he say? Breath of fresh air? His player is lying to cover his character's OOC based actions at that point.

It's obvious where my opinion is on this. I think it's a much more valid argument that all characters without a backstory who are saving place names have done something wrong. Would I expect people to actually be reprimanded for this? Of course not. Would I expect Nessy's player to be reprimanded for explaining the character's knowledge of an event to come through creative RPing? Also, of course not.

I agree with you Jur, for most cases. However, Maelstrom does make a very good point. Players have been asked to do something with their characters in game in this instance, so I don't think the line can be so easily drawn. For some characters to feel a change in the winds regarding this should not be considered a breach, though it should be kept to a minimum, and not blatantly mentioned, as it is using OOC information IC (even if Jos asked us to).

For example, the dream or hunch, that something is amiss in the winds, as opposed to "I predict we'll forget all town names". If it's going to be mentioned at all, it should be vague, and well RP'd.

As for Ness speaking of a "Changer" who changes things, I see no problem with this, as she can be thought of as crazy by those characters who find it preposterous. It might help others explain within their own characters some of the changes that happen. It seems like more of a religion......one can believe or not believe. Just don't name the Changer as Jos.

p.s. I don't know as this should be taken as an "official ruling". I am a senior member of the PD, however this is obviously something new, and things like this need to be discussed with the players. Once again, and a few of you are cringing..........no instant hard and fast rule. Reasonability has to be a guiding factor.

Ha ha! Mälstrom has a very good point there. Anybody right now who spends all their time inside and suddenly goes running outside for no apparent reason should be held to the same standard. People who have been relatively stationary for a time suddenly say, "I feel the need to go travelling suddenly. Oh look, I've been to 8 towns in 8 days look at me go!" could reasonably accused of the same thing, but fortunately have a more acceptable RP excuse.

And from the quotes it seems like funny stuff, quite creative even. As in most of the in game religion debates, let's make sure we don't declare any mention of spiritual or supernatural beings an instant CRB. And if the supernatural being is based on coded game events, that should quiet a lot of the arguments against it, shouldn't it?

Jur is right, don't push the envelope with mentioning future events and all will be well, holding hands and dancing under the rainbow.

After some thought, I think you are right, Maelstrom. This will become an active issue with the food changes as I just announced them; I'm actually asking players to deal with it in-game, so it is valid to RP "knowing" that this change will come, too. How you want to RP that knowledge is entirely up to you; you may want to call it a divine prophesy, a scientific projection, or whatever else; that's entirely up to you.

Jur.

My character does not spend much time listening to what the changer is doing. It seems like "Ness" doesn't know herself. And if there is some kind of religion, it might as well use ooc information as lons as it doesn't mess up the game. And I don't think Ness is doing that with this name forgetting thing. I think Ness is handling this very nice here.

If she was punnished in the worst way possible and this character would have to die, I would be disapointed, because it is very nice to read Ness' thaughts.