Cantr II Discussion Forum

Have we ever discussed if it was a CR breech for a theif to use all the stolen iron and steel to build a bunch of crap inside the jail just so the stolen items would be wasted?

It could be seen as a CR breech or just RP of a vindictive soon to be dead man.

Nah that can't be a CRB, I mean which rule would it be breaking? The all characters must be nice to each other and not waste people's things when others are about to kill you out of spite rule?

Note Bombing, Creating Buildings with insulting names, Excessive knocking, and Machine clogging are some things that we have talked about as being against the rules.

I do think wasting stolen resources while in jail by creating spiteful projects borders on being included in the list above.

I think the problem here is the game mechanics...


(a present from a Spanish guy ->) ¡¡¡ Just make possible to cancel a non started project !!!

Yeah, it's a problem with the game mechanics. In real life you couldn't force a lump of iron to become a screwdriver in the future, unless you hammered it into shape (and even then it could later be melted but that's another thing). Therefor it's abusing a system flaw.

SekoETC wrote:Yeah, it's a problem with the game mechanics. In real life you couldn't force a lump of iron to become a screwdriver in the future, unless you hammered it into shape (and even then it could later be melted but that's another thing). Therefor it's abusing a system flaw.

Actually, good point- Seko's view makes it a CRB. It's abusing the game's system, taking advantage of the fact that projects cant be reversed.

N-Aldwitch wrote:

SekoETC wrote:Yeah, it's a problem with the game mechanics. In real life you couldn't force a lump of iron to become a screwdriver in the future, unless you hammered it into shape (and even then it could later be melted but that's another thing). Therefor it's abusing a system flaw.

Actually, good point- Seko's view makes it a CRB. It's abusing the game's system, taking advantage of the fact that projects cant be reversed.

Depends whose view you are looking at it from. From one point of view, the criminal could say that him being attacked after stealing an iron shield and being hurt is a CRB because the attacker is taking advantage of the fact that shields are not always effective.

Right now non-reversable projects are a game mechanic. Therefore, if people wish to RP using it they are free to. Note bombing is different, as note-bombing is designed to annoy a player by causing lots of mess to clean up, not the character, whereas this is merely something that annoys a character as they are losing their resources

I get irritated when my resources get lost to a game flaw... by saying this is just a game mechanic you may as well also say that making hordes of notes using your internet browser is just a mechanical quark. Exploiting it is exploiting it.

I think it's ridiculous. what use could anyone have for 17 anvils inside of a prison? Not only can't you remove the materials from the project, you can't remove certain idiotic things that these people build..

There are always going to be shades of grey though - I have a character who's a religious nut that was accussed of note bombing because he'd hand out his tract at least once to everyone he met (which, by the by, I've seen in real life. I know I've had that stuff physically forced on me before). I changed that behavior rather than be booted.

Actually if you think about it, following that, or any rule for that matter, can be considered a CRB.

From what I have read, a CRB is using any out of game influence inside the game. Following rules outside of the game is therefore automatically a CRB by the definition.

Anyways, what if the char in question is a vindictive SOB and that is the action he would take should he be locked up, wouldnt that be considered a CRB to not play that way since some people consider it to be an annoyance?

Here is another point, someone said that creating those projects is an exploit of the game mechanics. Considering that there are a lot of things being exploited by the game mechanics, does that mean they will all have to stop?
I think its annoying that when someone hits me, I can lose life due to the game mechanics, can we stop people from hitting others if they dont want to be hit?
(BTW I dont care if people hit me, its just an example)

Anyways, my point is that like all other "issues" this should be dealt with in game.

Bowser wrote:Have we ever discussed if it was a CR breech for a theif to use all the stolen iron and steel to build a bunch of crap inside the jail just so the stolen items would be wasted?

It could be seen as a CR breech or just RP of a vindictive soon to be dead man.

Ok, I've thought of another, even more important reason why we cannot ever make this a CRB. Cantr has no concept of ownership. If this is a CRB then it would be saying -definitively-, that the jailor owns the jail in terms of game mechanics and game rules rather than just IG, and can do whatever he wants inside it, but a criminal cannot. If a jailor built 17 anvils inside his prison, would that be considered a CRB?

Furthermore, this is saying that the steel belonged to the jailor. Absolute rubbish, being a criminal is no CRB, and once a criminal owns some item in terms of game mechanics they are his to do what he wants to, so whats all this rubbish about his wasting of the towns steel, it's his steel once he has stolen it.

So in other words, stop trying to fix what is only a problem from one side of the issue, otherwise you're going to get annoyed next time you try to play it from the other

If the person used the materials to benefit him/herself then it would not be a CRB. If a person eats the healing food they stole, it's not a CRB. If a person starts constructing an anvil with the intent to build a crowbar on it to break out, it's not a CRB.

But when game mechanics are abused, it's a CRB.

We should implement legal means of sabotage so that people wouldn't be forced to do unnatural things. It should be possible to break an item as well as repair one. When a person is engaged on a breaking project (or activity), the item will deteriorate rapidly based on it's material strength. When it would have enough damage, it would crumple (some resources used might fall on the floor). But a random chance of success should be involved. Also it should be possible to use tools (like a hammer or a knife) for breaking stuff. If a person is interrupted (dragged away from the project), the item they were working on should fall on the floor. It would be in the stage of damage applied on it before the activity was interrupted.

Also it should be possible to over-eat daily (and healing) food, even though it should cause you to feel sick. This way you could dispose of resources. I think you should also be able to eat sand and other small stuff, but it would kill you after a while. It would be cool if non-digested stuff would remain inside the stomach and the corpse could be cut open, but it would be an icky task and might cause temporary illness.

I can't make my mind up about this one, but surely the undoing of projects is currently being worked on, so the problem should disappear. Just get your next prisoner to undo them.

Meanwhile, I would say to that character that it was a CRB, I agree with Seko and Nakranoth's points, it is abusing a game flaw without any other aim that anoying other characters. IMO, it is worst than note bombing.