Turn-based combat

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Do you like this idea?

Yes
59
80%
No
13
18%
Undecided (Please list reasoning for discussion purposes)
2
3%
 
Total votes: 74
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catwill
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby catwill » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:00 pm

I'm voting yes and hoping I don't live to regret it. My chars are peaceful souls with rarely an ocassion to fight.
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Hedgedhogst
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Hedgedhogst » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:29 pm

Because none of my characters have really been fighters, and I've never experienced the math... Does this mean it would be possible to kill a character, 1 vs 1, in a few minutes? Or at least leave them in NDS... I mean, if I'm not mistaken, worst case (or best case) scenario, two lucky shots missing a shield can do over 50% damage and kill a character, right? Or am I missing something real big here?

This could potentially be used as another way of suicide, interestingly. Find a guy, piss him off, and slap him until your character is good and dead. Quicker than poison OR starvation. Wait, does this mean hitting yourself would make it possible to hit yourself again straight afterwards? That would be an even more convenient way of committing suicide, to everyone else's dismay.
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JsWill
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby JsWill » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:48 pm

Hedgedhogst wrote:Because none of my characters have really been fighters, and I've never experienced the math... Does this mean it would be possible to kill a character, 1 vs 1, in a few minutes? Or at least leave them in NDS... I mean, if I'm not mistaken, worst case (or best case) scenario, two lucky shots missing a shield can do over 50% damage and kill a character, right? Or am I missing something real big here?

This could potentially be used as another way of suicide, interestingly. Find a guy, piss him off, and slap him until your character is good and dead. Quicker than poison OR starvation. Wait, does this mean hitting yourself would make it possible to hit yourself again straight afterwards? That would be an even more convenient way of committing suicide, to everyone else's dismay.


Yeah I didn't consider that, but I don't think that's necessarily a problem, however, if it is then you can always make it so that you can't kill yourself that fast.
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Doug R.
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Doug R. » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:05 pm

Suicide is overwhelmingly wanted, so if I can chop myself up, that's a win for suicide and a win for the programmers that now don't have to program it. Kills two birds with one stone.

Don't forget that tiredness still applies here. You can only effectively attack three times before you're too tired to make it worth it, so sure, it's possible you could kill someone in one "series" of attacks, but limited to three useful hits, you'd have to pretty much bypass their shield every time if you're a normal fighter.
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Hedgedhogst
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Hedgedhogst » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:10 pm

Doug R. wrote:Suicide is overwhelmingly wanted, so if I can chop myself up, that's a win for suicide and a win for the programmers that now don't have to program it. Kills two birds with one stone.

Don't forget that tiredness still applies here. You can only effectively attack three times before you're too tired to make it worth it, so sure, it's possible you could kill someone in one "series" of attacks, but limited to three useful hits, you'd have to pretty much bypass their shield every time if you're a normal fighter.

I've just changed my vote from 'no' to 'yes'. I'm liking this a heck of a lot now.
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Greek
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Greek » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:11 pm

Thousand times yes. I thought about something similar many times, but I was thinking that no combat change can be accepted.
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby freiana » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:26 pm

I've been moved to yes, too... Although I see some downsides, the current system has downsides too, and probably this is just the best way of improving the system possible right now.
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JsWill
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby JsWill » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:44 am

freiana wrote:I've been moved to yes, too... Although I see some downsides, the current system has downsides too, and probably this is just the best way of improving the system possible right now.


Mind elaborating on what you believe the down sides would be? We might be able to figure out a solution if we put our heads together. xD
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Black Canyon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:21 am

I'd be willing to give this a shot.
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby freiana » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:04 pm

JsWill wrote:
freiana wrote:I've been moved to yes, too... Although I see some downsides, the current system has downsides too, and probably this is just the best way of improving the system possible right now.


Mind elaborating on what you believe the down sides would be? We might be able to figure out a solution if we put our heads together. xD


The main thing is that with this system RL things can influence the RP -very- much, because if I am nearly going to bed, I will not strike back, because he could hit me again in my sleep. In the current system that was never a problem: You cannot influence when he/she hits again. I don't want my chars doing something else than fits their personality or strategy, because I have to sleep...
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Cantryjczyk
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Cantryjczyk » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Yes! Great idea. I was suggesting and advocating exactly this too, few times already. But was calmed down, because changing fighting system always was discouraged and considered as very unlikely move.

Just imagine what new possible ways to role playing it gives. Duels that doesn't take weeks. Or two angry womens that fight over something silly using cooking tools not once a day, but until they both are to tired to do anything. New drama! New tactical choices. Possibility for speeding action up without hurting people who don't play so often. I see only positive changes if this suggestion will be implemented.

Just two small additional proposals since main already require changing fighting mechanics:
- make it impossible to attack or hunt if char is to tired (like more then 90% tiredness) - reducing spam attacks
- make it so that attacking own body don't reset timer, it would be to easy to train fighting skill alone or commit suicide


After this change you can be killed faster. But every time you give some opportunity to hit you often then before change, you do so by own action, attack, and you have time to hide, heal, talk etc before attacking. So you attack back only when you think you are ready and fighting is what you want and are prepared for. Logical and great.
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby SekoETC » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:47 pm

+1 to preventing attacking when tiredness is too high, although I would set it at 100% instead of 90%.
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Doug R.
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Doug R. » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:25 pm

I disagree with disabling this for suicide. It's one of the reasons I like it. Remember, tiredness still applies! You're not going to be able to kill yourself in a day, because you'll be too tired -and- hurt to do it! Same for sparring. There's little benefit to sparring when more than 45% tired. I've seen the formula.


I agree with preventing 100% tiredness spam attacks, though.
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JsWill
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby JsWill » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:44 am

freiana wrote:
JsWill wrote:
freiana wrote:I've been moved to yes, too... Although I see some downsides, the current system has downsides too, and probably this is just the best way of improving the system possible right now.


Mind elaborating on what you believe the down sides would be? We might be able to figure out a solution if we put our heads together. xD


The main thing is that with this system RL things can influence the RP -very- much, because if I am nearly going to bed, I will not strike back, because he could hit me again in my sleep. In the current system that was never a problem: You cannot influence when he/she hits again. I don't want my chars doing something else than fits their personality or strategy, because I have to sleep...


I don't think it would change much from now really. I mean if you choose not to attack back then just don't attack back and things will pick up where they left off before you went to sleep. Plus I think you're forgetting that tiredness plays into the matter as well, as Doug said you can only attack so many times before you get too tired to attack anymore. If anything in my opinion this increases the role play possibilities, it doesn't stagnate it and it doesn't necessarily influence it unless you choose to allow it.

I don't feel you should let this discourage you from role playing the same way you always have and I don't think anyone will be disappointed with you holding off on a battle until you wake up.

@doug, I totally agree with everything you just said. :p
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Chroma Key
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Re: Turn-based combat

Postby Chroma Key » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:29 am

I have changed my vote. This is a very good idea.
I have a question, though. Currently, we are able to attack someone at full strength even if you are 100% tired. Now, I can just see a char of mine devoting a year of his time to spar with himself to maximise his skill in fighting. Attack himself 7 times in an hour (using up all his strength), rest an hour, get his tiredness below 100%, attack again and rest again, and so on and so forth. Now, the damage he may or not be able to cause is not the issue here. However, this seems to allow him a hell lot of an advantage at the expense of his tiredness (and the natural consequences such as being unable to work effectively, etc). From what I understand, it is the strength of the attack that allows you to maximise your skill (and strength) - the harder the attack, the higher the skill points added to your existing points. I am not sure if the constant tiredness is a good trade off for chars emerging as msta expert fighters after a year's (insert another number depending on how low/high their skill already is) incapacity. I don't really have a stand on this point, what do people think?
Personal note: 70% of my chars are msta. 60% are expert fighters and 40% are msta expert fighters. I would not really need to undertake the above practise extensively myself.
Edit: I've just seen the solution offered to that by JSWill. If you prevent self attack "resetting the timer", doesn't that totally take the option of sparring with yourself out of the equation? I would not like that. Would it be able to be limited in another way?
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