Building rot - DUPE persevered for discussion

[shapukas]

At least make visible eavrything while you sit in the car or other transport. Afcourse, you can't see whats on the ground outside. Thats ok.

[Gran]

TOWERS AND CASTLES AREN'T EASY TO MAKE!!!
Great defense towers are made with derricks.They need not only a trowel and some stone.A high tower would need more stone than any building that we have.also, there would be needed greater quantities of wood and workers!Castles shall be dificult to make!Otherwise every stuped idiot would say:

Haha!I'm aa king!I'm gotta castle!

Castles also should be beat down with greater war machines, like trebuchets.Castles are small in the very start.The only building would be the keep.Wit the keep, you could upgrade with walls and more.
I sugest that locations shoulden't be all surrounded by walls.You may build a city inside castle walls-with buildings limit, of course-
But aldo, castles make na diferent tatic challenge.The castle strength depends from his location.

CASTLES ARE TO BE EXPENSIVE, HARD MAKING, SLOW BUILDING.

[shapukas]

Yes, castles shoud be expensive. Thats ok. Maby castles whith buildings inside and war mashines shoud be in the future. But now at least some whatch tower woud be great thing. From which you could se if eany one arives in town or leves it. Lots of stone and workers arent a big problem. Those towers donot have to need lots of stone comparing whith stone building ir hall. Tower would be toller, but thiner. Just for 2 or three people on them. Its mane purpose would be whach the surroundings.

[Priekabusis]

for a starter, id suggest a simple "dismantle" function atached near buildings, which could be done with eg some simple tools, like hammer and chisel, also sledgehammer...

after all those cranes are developed thats possible with them too, but for a starter, just hammer and chisel is far more than enough, because waiting is for loosers

[Pie]

what would happen to attatched rooms when a front building thing went down?

[Sicofonte]

Dismantling and Destruction should be different.

I suggest:

Dismantling of a room: working on it (project) with the proper tools (maybe the same that were needed for the construction) for recovering the resources. Only possible if there are no more rooms behind the one being dismantled (three rooms in a hall -> four dismantling projects)
Two sub-types:
- "friendly" distmantling: with the key, maybe only from inside.
- violent dismantling: without the key.
The violent way will take twice the time of the other one, and will recover only a part of the resources, whilst the "friendly" way will recover most or all the resources (different resources should have different recovery rates)

Destruction of a whole building: attaking it (not project), with proper weapons or war machines, until it gets down, destroying most of its raw resources.
The structural points of the building would be calculated form the sum of all its rooms. So a big hall with several stone rooms inside it, would be really hard (indestructible against normal weapons), more than a hall alone. And destroying the hall (with or without rooms inside) will destroy the whole building (rooms too)

[Reindeer^]

I am so against this suggestion.

You can build a cottage in (about) 30 days but with ballista or crane you can destroy it in few days! Hard work for nothing.
Most of the Cantrian towns are quite small and they have no way to stop ballistas to destroy their houses.
Cantr will become a war simulation because war will be too easy! But it shouldn´t be. Attackers should have reasons to think is this war worth it.

[Priekabusis]

yeah, war machines are'nt neccesary, same goes with resource recovery. its unrealistic, if you use wood for a cottage and recover 90% after you dismantle it, i think its fare enough if only 50% or less is givven back. also this could differ due to what items you use for dismantling buildings... like just hammer 30% hammer and chisle 40% and max a 50% with saw and pliers that would be ok as a starter

oh by the way, i;ve come to a problem with burning things, like lots of trahs messages, that i spot in every town i vist. that would be ok if you could put them in a fire place or an oven to bur them down

[Sicofonte]

You can build a cottage in (about) 30 days but with ballista or crane you can destroy it in few days! Hard work for nothing.
Most of the Cantrian towns are quite small and they have no way to stop ballistas to destroy their houses.
Cantr will become a war simulation because war will be too easy! But it shouldn´t be. Attackers should have reasons to think is this war worth it.

Of course.
No one has said how much wood would ve recovered from the destruction of a shack employing a ballista. I would say that not more than a 33% (and if fire is employed, no more than 10% I would say).

But at least 90% should be recovered if dismantling it with the proper tools (and the key if locked) and time.

Stone/marble/brick buildings would require more time than any other for being destructed or dismantled, but they will allow to recover more resources (90% for dismantling with the key, 75% for dismantling without the key for closed buildings, and 50% for destruction)


An why do you think a ballista would be cheap?
A ballista should be rather expensive and slow (its movement and its assembling for starting an attack).

Everything can be balanced enough to allow more diversity in the combat system without ruining the expectatives of any player.

[Crosshair]

So make ballistas that y'can slap on the side of a ship, gah!

[Sicofonte]

That would be possible (for example) with dismantling for machines* implemented.

* machines if the ballista is going to be a machine, but it could be a vehicle, or even a building.

But would be more logical to use a specifically designed-for-ships/buildings ballistam, mounted inside the ship as an engine or the sails, but showing buttons for the proper actions.

But then the combat system for ships have to be designed and implemented first.

Lag is the first priority for programming issues.

[Reindeer^]

Building dismantling is a good way to get rid of old useless building but it should take some time. People will dismantle old building though it will take long. If at least 50 % will be recovered it is enough. How many days it takes to collect 5000 grams wood?

About 14 days with no tools.

And if dismantling a cottage takes 10 days with just a stone hammer...

- violent dismantling: without the key.
The violent way will take twice the time of the other one, and will recover only a part of the resources, whilst the "friendly" way will recover most or all the resources (different resources should have different recovery rates)

This was good suggestion!

If somebody dismantle a cottage violently it takes 20 days and he or she get only 2500 grams of wood...

So if violent dismantling is less efficient than collecting wood I agree this suggestion.

[Sicofonte]

The time that the dismantling projects will take will be in some way proportional to the value (in time) of the resources recovered.

Dismantling or destroying buildings just for materials would be efficient (interesting) only when that resources are not there.
I mean: In places with stone, no one will prefer to pull down buildings instead of gathering stone (unless they are angry or crazy).

[Reindeer^]

In Cantr people bury bodies though they get no benefits...

Maybe people will dismantle useless houses.

One of my char is a cleaning maniac and if dismantling will be implemented he will get a heart attack.

[Sicofonte]

In Cantr people bury bodies though they get no benefits...

There is a purpose for burying bodies. If you do not know why, hold on some days near some corpses.

Maybe people will dismantle useless houses.

For sure.
At least when they have a reason for it.

Fool newspawns won't be a problem: without tools, he can't destroy nor dismantle. With poor tools (hammer and that) he would need days and days for dismantling any non-tiny building, so there is time enough to drag out / kill the vandal.