Vehicle Change: Road Accesibility

[nitefyre]

all you will do is make it a punishment for those that thought big and made a Van.

I continue to second this, and his priorly expressed sentiments. If anything, these ambitious projects with vast investments to boost Cantr's economies based on valid information (i.e. how operable a vehicle is on a certain road) should be rewarded, not stolen from.... I can understand cantrians getting hungrier and eating more, but the impact of my characters not being able to drive their vehicles on the same roads would merely be absurd. I think a little laissez-faire on the part of the RD would be better than doing harm by stifling Cantr's economical bit of the game's society simulating function.

The simulation is provided not necessarily through realism, and I quote the creator, Jos Elkink, in the recent Webzine interview saying, "The current total mix in Cantr, with some societies looking like the Stone Age and others having modern institutions I actually find the most interesting, and I am not really bothered with the fact that it is not very historically accurate. It's rather irrelevant." Not only that, but I don't see how the game is made more 'realistic' by having vans that have long used certain roads no longer be able to use them anymore.

***

How about we hold off on this till weather gets implemented, then restrict the road used further in less than ideal conditions. Leave the current rules in place to represent a clear dry road/path. Most any motor vehicle should have no problem with a clean dry dirt(sand) road. If there was any significant rain or snow in the last couple days, that all changes. The roads could have discriptors added to them such as Wet, Washed Out, Light Snow, Heavy Snow, Ice, and travel for vehicles would be reduced based on type of vehicle. Also new vehicles could be introduced like the snowmobile that could only be used on snow.

This compromise here is the only acceptable one I see in the topic, if the need really is there to change the impact on vehicles. However, I still don't see the need necessarily having played for 3 odd real life years and having played it fine without these changes. And the only reason I find this compromise acceptable is because of how long it will be until weather is implemented.

[Maelstrom]

I don't think anyone's saying this won't impact some people, but that it won't impact -most- people.

There are, what, 6000? 8000? characters. Something in that range. How many will be affected directly, right now, today? One percent, maybe.

[I expect someone who's better informed to correct those numbers, but I'm in the ballpark]

Chris (or anyone from ProgD), how difficult would it be to implement a variable to control maxspeed_on_roadtype instead? So people can drive down a sand road in a sportscar, albeit slowly, instead of being barred from it, but also not able to drive 200 miles at hour down what's, at best, a beach.

-Mael

[Oasis]

That I would accept as a realistic compromise........the poorer the road, the slower some vehicles might have to take it. As long as it's not as slow as walking, that would be a bit much.

And in this same vein, it would make sense to allow the road motorcycle to travel on sand roads, at a reduced speed to avoid wipeouts. Since this is currently the only vehicle that cannot travel on a sand road.

[Chris Johnson]

It would be possible to introduce max speeds per road type - Not completely straight forward, but we have already introduced max speeds overall (to control the speed of the Wooden Cart) .

It's a lot more work than leaving things as they are , I personally don't see the original proposal as an issue of Game Balance , - It may be slightly more realistic but the game is not being balanced by this - just the manufacturing tables .

Really I think this would be best solved by renaming all the vehicles to something else unique - They aren't motorcycles, or jeeps - they just have different capacities, functionality and build requirements - If that was the case would there really be a need to change what roads they could travel on ?

[formerly known as hf]

I agree with the changes, in terms of realism (minus the pickup and tractor changes)

But I do not think this will foster diversity - it will only increase the popularity of tandem bikes and dirt motorcycles, and we'll see less of the other vehicles.

If this is to be implemented - and I actually agree it should be - then I think the requirements for road improving, at least up to paved road, should be changed, dramatically.

Oil is a scarce resource, non-existent on some islands, which means paved roads are currently out of the question for many many places (the vast majority).

I would suggest that there be a level of improvement in-between sand and paved - cobbled - which requires sand and stone.

Most vehicles which travel on paved roads should be able to travel on cobbled roads, minus limos, sports cars and the like.

In terms of realism - cobbled roads make sense - the Romans cobbled some of their roads, and they were the norm in Europe until the 20th Century, and the mass production of cars - which brought with it mass drilling for oil to get fuel, which made oil available for road improvements.

As cars in cantr don't need oil for fuel - there is not that mass demand for oil, which allowed the tarmac-ing / 'paving' of roads in the real world.

Unless road improvement is made easier, this change will only decrease the desire for diversity.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Right. This doesn't have a very large present-day impact. Everyone's freaking out because of their future plans, which may or may not ever occur.

Doesn’t affect me in any way. I haven’t/won’t made/make future plans regarding vehicles. When plans for vehicles come up, my characters will decide what will be best for them at that time (though I suppose it sucks if they make plans and work to get what they need then things change before they get them made).

I’m just looking at how realistic the changes would be and disagreeing with a couple of them. The idea in itself is okay, which is why I said I agree with Bowser in a generalized way, because though I think this idea could be okay, there are so many other things that have been/will be imposed that it will do exactly what he said. Make the game not fun and give us too much reality to deal with in a game that we use to get away from the real reality (even though it's not the case for everyone).

Maybe that's a better question to ask. What vehicles are designed to be driven, -at their best-, on what road types? Because we're not asking -if- a limo can be driven down a deer track, we're asking -should- a limo be driven down a deer track.

Exactly.

Who in their right mind would build a road motorcycle?

I have one of those. (Admittedly, I didn't build it or choose to have it built.)

Bottom line is we felt this would add something to the game, but we recognized that this would be another huge change and I felt that it would be best to hear from you, the players, before we went through and had a poke at it. If I can organize any more thoughts more coherently, I will post them.

I for one agree with Bowser. I am tired of changing the rules in the middle of the game. But after looking at the database for a year, and trying to find someway to find some sort of simplicity out of the mess of a technology collection that I inherited...I am at a loss sometimes for how to tie up all the loose ends, put those planks to good use, and help get the game to a point where an advanced civilization can grow and thrive in this little game. It's hard work.

You try and we appreciate it (at least I do). I think, even though overall changing the food was just like, “aww man..”, it was done well with the gradual changes. I’m glad you brought this change to the front and put an IG message out there to feel out the idea (through not just regular forumers but through encouraging those that don’t visit the forums to do so and voice an opinion) before saying “We’ll do this in X number of days/months.” That’s a huge step.

I would suggest that there be a level of improvement in-between sand and paved - cobbled - which requires sand and stone.

I like this idea.

[Nixit]

I agree with Farmer's idea for the cobbled road.

[Marian]

You are correct. I am of the opinion that if this change is to take place, everything larger then a dirt bike that doesn't take aluminum should not be able to travel on sand roads (including all vans and cars). Aluminum vehicles are much more expensive, and so should be able to travel on lower level roads.

By this reasoning shouldn't buses be able to drive on sand roads too? This would at least fix Pieter de Groote's problem...making a bus is a ridiculous amount of work as it is, I don't think it should be made even less likely that one will be finished now.


And I'm all for hallucinatingfarmer's suggestion of cobbled roads to. Either that or oil will have to be made available in way more towns, like I said.

[Talapus]

What if we were just to remove the oil requirement from the paved road? We already have 5 levels of road, we don't need to add another.

[T-shirt]

No; don't remove oil. I've invested all my resources in an oil derrick...

[Maelstrom]

What if we were just to remove the oil requirement from the paved road? We already have 5 levels of road, we don't need to add another.

I'd be more inclined to remove highway/expressway, bump paved and the remaining oil using road up a notch, and make cobbled road the 'middle' road.

-Mael

[Mykey]

Vehicle - current - proposed
--------------------------------------
bike - path - path
bike cart - path - path
rickshaw - path - path
tandem bike - path - path
tricycle - path - path
small wooden cart - path - path

dirt motorcycle - path - path
road motorcycle - paved road - paved road

jeep - path - path
pickup - path - sand road
small pickup - path - path
small tractor - sand road - sand road
tractor - sand road - paved road (if we consider it as a tractor trailer NOT a farm tractor)

mini van - sand road - sand road
small van - sand road - sand road
van - sand road - paved road

caddie - sand road - paved road
limousine - sand road - paved road
passenger car - sand road - sand road
small sportscar - sand road - paved road
stationcar - sand road - sand road

bus - sand road - paved road

I would do this....


bike - path - path
bike cart - path - path
rickshaw - path - path
tandem bike - path - path
tricycle - path - path
small wooden cart - path - path

dirt motorcycle - path - path
road motorcycle - paved road - paved road

jeep - path - path
pickup - path - - path -
small pickup - path - sand road, for obvious reasons....
small tractor - sand road - sand road
tractor - sand road - paved road (if we consider it as a tractor trailer NOT a farm tractor)

mini van - sand road - sand road
small van - sand road - sand road
van - sand road - path Too much like a pick-up to me, if you force sand for this do it for the pickup too.

caddie - sand road - sand road
limousine - sand road - paved road
passenger car - sand road - sand road
small sportscar - sand road - paved road
stationcar - sand road - sand road

bus - sand road - [b]paved road

I like most of these changes, I just think they could be balanced better.
If this doesn`t work than slowing them down seems reasonable enough to me...

[Mykey]

After considering it some more I think all motorized transporataion should require roads, except the jeep,van,dirt bike and pickup. I wouldnt allow those on mountain paths though,only jeeps and bikes, through dense forest. At a slow rate, say 2-3x that of a tandem bike. Any road of course should negate any physical obstructions withoout weather....
I also think the road motorcycle could travel on a sand road, at a reasonable speed.

[radrobert]

I have come to a conclusion.


We are wasting our time even writing up on this subject, just as the staff is wasting there time considering it. Honestly. Can some moron speak up and tell me who it was who thought this was a good idea? Why not find ways to make the game more realistic. Like adding wheather. Pollution.(I would love to see how this digital enviroment copes with the advance of pollution). Change the collection rates. Some of them still dont seem to compare with real life. Find a way to demolish old buildings. I'm getting sick of all these old buildings that no one likes to see. Some are from when cantr first got on its feet. They have no use anymore and no one wants to use them because they cant be renamed. Every time i log in to cantr i click the stupid google ad becuase i know what its like to run a high traffic site. Several actually. I come to get away from it all. But changing things like this is going to lose allot of valued players. Me being one of them. Each click is worth about .10-40 cents USD is it worth making a stupid desision and losing all these players/contributers via google?

[Phalynx]

I have come to a conclusion.


We are wasting our time even writing up on this subject, just as the staff is wasting there time considering it. Honestly. Can some moron speak up and tell me who it was who thought this was a good idea? Why not find ways to make the game more realistic. Like adding wheather. Pollution.(I would love to see how this digital enviroment copes with the advance of pollution). Change the collection rates. Some of them still dont seem to compare with real life. Find a way to demolish old buildings. I'm getting sick of all these old buildings that no one likes to see. Some are from when cantr first got on its feet. They have no use anymore and no one wants to use them because they cant be renamed. Every time i log in to cantr i click the stupid google ad becuase i know what its like to run a high traffic site. Several actually. I come to get away from it all. But changing things like this is going to lose allot of valued players. Me being one of them. Each click is worth about .10-40 cents USD is it worth making a stupid desision and losing all these players/contributers via google?

Friend it seems you would more at home in the Rant thread!

I agree with you though!