Knowledge, Skills and Research - Duplicate

[UloDeTero]

I know we have skills (expert at hunting, etc), but I think this could improve on it. There are three interconnected parts to this suggestion:

1 - Knowledge. Each character has a 'list' of objects and things that they've come across in-game. In the beginning it's empty, but as things are mentioned, or the character sees or obtains them, they are added to the list. This merely helps the player to keep track of what the character knows. To illustrate: Currently, the full building menu is available to newspawns, even though they just spawned and most of the items are unknown to the characters in the region. ("Hey, I just spawned. I'm going to build a bagh-nakh." "Er, what's a bagh-nakh, Mr Newspawn?") Better to only have things available to build that the character is familiar with.

2 - Skills. Characters pick up skills from helping others to perform tasks. For example, a newspawn spawns with no skills, but helps someone to collect wood. In doing so, he 'learns' how to collect wood and can then do it by himself and even teach others. This applies for all projects. The character either knows how to do it, or he doesn't. This encourages characters to co-operate (to learn from each other), and allows them to establish specialised trades. If a character doesn't know how to farm spinach, for example, he can either learn, or just buy it. And he himself would have skills that the spinach-seller doesn't have. ("Could you smelt this iron for me?" "Sorry, I don't know how." "Ask John, he'll show you.")

3 - Research. Characters can do research projects. This is another way for them to learn skills or discover new weapons. For example, in an isolated town, they may only know about bone tools. They might have some hematite but have no idea how to use it, and have no more 'enlightened' people to learn from. So they'd be able to do research projects to learn about better tools and how to make them. For example, they could do a [Research Hematite] project. When the project completes, all participants learn how to process hematite. Or they could do a [Research Wooden Weapons] project to learn how to make a random wooden weapon. Research is based on what they are already familiar with, such as resources they have or know about, or items they've seen (their Knowledge). This avoids the current 'strange coincidence' of all characters simultaneously "learning" how to make a newly implemented item. ("I've just discovered a new food called 'stew'! Bring me some meat!" "I would, but I just spawned and I don't know how to hunt!" "Ask John, he'll show you how to use a bagh-nakh." "What's a bagh-nakh?" "John'll show you.")

This is far from complete, and I don't know technically how it might work, but gives the general idea.

[Arlequin]

Here's an idea:

The natural skills unlock certain advanced craftings. I.e. an expert tailor would be able to make any cloth, even those (s)he never saw before, just because his expertice allows him/her to guess how to.

When a character finishes a project, there's a chance based on his skill he will receive an option to write a teaching note describing the process. This note can be copied and shared like any other else. By reading that note, other characters can unlock their ability to make that project; but they can "learn" only one project each several days, so they better choose which career they are willing to learn.

Pros: It would encourage libraries, "knowledge" trade, schools and similar things currently non present in Cantr. The quest for knowledge (beyond the supreme and omniscient Wiki-God which blesses us with its divine inspiration...) would be another in-game motivation.

Cons: It sounds almost too much like a fantasy RPG leveling system, and limits the choices for characters. Tech developing is already controlled by the available resources.

I would go for it, because it would decrease the impact of OOC knowledge, but I think too its a resign about expecting this should be made within roleplay ways.

[Crosshair]

I quite like this idea, because of the possibility of some kind of learning establishments, that actually give useful results IG.

[formerly known as hf]

This idea has been bandered around many times.

For the research idea. Check out the original An Essay on Motivation II: Technology & Quests Which was followed by an in-depth discussion regarding Jur's idea of scrolls.
Also: Knowledges and on blueprints/plans: Technology and search for 'inventing' for even more...

The idea of 'tutoring/mentoring' to learn/improve skills also appears in many places. Although I can;t find a specific thread for it (strange, as I know I've mentioned it many many times).

Anyhoo - tutoring: great idea, PLEASE Progd?

But I think research etc/knowledges is a bit too controversial and the implementation would have to be excellent for it to be greeted warmly... Quite frankly, making stuff is hard - I'd rather not let it get harder.

What would be interesting, though, would be new non-essential additions being introduced selectively via research/blueprints (ala EVE blueprints)

[Crosshair]

*hates EVE bluprints*

[Sicofonte]

I would came into this discussion if I wasn't so busy...

For the moment I'll say:

LET'S RESEARCH!

[tiddy ogg]

As someone used to say - nerfing.
Seems to me that means you can have your char sleep non-stop for years claiming he's researching.

[Chris Johnson]

As HF says all of these suggestions have been suggested before in one form or another.

(for a tutoring/learning thread see http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5870 )

Moved to rejected suggestions as a duplicate

[UloDeTero]

With respect, I think there's a significant difference between this thread and those you've linked to. Primarily, the idea in this thread links the three areas of knowledge, skills and research. Blueprints/scrolls are a possible other way to spread knowledge or skills, but are nothing like Research Projects. Also, this idea has nothing to do with inventing in the sense of creating new items etc from within the game, by means of modular things etc. (The only way inventing would have any relevance is in the sense that the knowledge and skills discovered by means of research could maybe be described as inventing.) The only things I'm suggesting that a character be able to learn/research/invent is the things already in the build menu. All I'm saying is it should be hidden from the player until the character actually learns about it.

I know the individual concepts have been thought of in some form or another before, but I've attempted to pull them together into one idea which doesn't resort to external things like 'plans' or 'scrolls' to define a characters mental faculties. Things related to the character (stats, abilities etc) should be part of the game interface, imo. In other words, it shouldn't be possible for a charry to 'forget' a skill just by losing a scroll.

To summarise: A character's initial knowledge and skills should be limited. Whatever a character doesn't know, he can learn or research.
What I had in mind is similar to the 'knowledge tree', but one that relates to each character (in other words, what does that character know?), and that only 'reveals itself' as the character learns more.

Finally, this idea attempts to address the issue of a newspawn character 'knowing' everything right off the bat, which is very daunting to new players.