Cantr II Discussion Forum

After doing some research into exactly what the thing I saw on my vacation was, I found out it was this

Called a saddle quern, it is an advancement in hand powered grain grinding techniques. They basically used a smaller stone, often a flat-ish shape but sometime round like a rolling pin, to grind the grain against the larger stone, called a Quern. They found that the grain stayed in the grinding area better if the quern had a concave shallow in it, and were used often enough that they eventually start looking like a saddle as the smaller stone rubs a wide groove of sorts in the bigger one.

All you need for this is a couple of rocks. No trowels, maybe a hammer to beat out any irregular bumps, but these are pretty simple machines.

They are different than the mortar and pestle type action of primitive grain crushers, which beat, smash and squish things together. That might be yet another way to get grain turned into something useable like corn meal, but this machine is intended to supplement the existing bread production with a more common, although less efficent way to mill grain.

And just so you know, they were most often used outside, but being not that big a thing, you could use them anywhere. Except on a bike. Boat could use it, but you need a larger vehicle, usually the ones without handlebars, I'd think.

I see no reason not to implement this. I am all for it.

But how you will make bread without iron if making an oven needs a trowel?

You could at least make pancakes at the right tech level...or could you? It might take an iron tool to get something to make pancakes on...

Maybe you could get a primitive oven to go with it? All stone, no tools? If neccessary, add some clay to the cost. And make it able to burn coal, or have a coal-burning varient.

Oh.. pancakes. But they are normal food or healing food? I never tried them in the game. But trowel is needed to make fireplace too, to make pancakes So, primitive fireplace and/or oven would be needed too.

The Industriallist wrote:If neccessary, add some clay to the cost.

Right there you're cutting out several places from having the technology, then.

The problem with objects in cantr is that there is no room for improvisation. Do you think if some Kingdom in ancient times couldn't find salt... they'd go without making swords, because the handles wouldn't be grippy enough?

I'm also kind of disappointed I can't make steel variants of all the iron tools.

Yes, of course. Mud ought to do, for an even cruder model...but mud isn't available everywhere either, somehow. Cantr isn't really oriented around being able to adapt your technology to your environment, it seems...

One could be nice and just make it out of stone...of course, one could also suggest that a firepit could be dug without a metal shovel, if we're going that route.

Agar, thank you for posting this. I had already had this idea in mind and it has been stewing for a while with images of the ancient Indians in mind. I think it should be much less efficient than a millstone but it will allow subsistance in certain areas until machinery can be built.


And I also like the primitive oven idea. Built outside without requiring relatively expensive tools (like a shovel :S -- stupid firepit costs ). Another purpose for clay would be great, and even for mud that matter. I believe a mud/clay mixture could make this attractive, or even one of each? Basically this too will have to be less effective than a proper oven I think, but characters will be able to live off it in primitive areas.

Exactly, less efficient, but usable.

I remember building fire pits in Boy Scouts using little more than a few well-placed rocks.

Sav

What about a pointed stick to dig a firepit? It'd take longer, and you'd have to make the stick, but it'd get the job done.

I think needing nothing is really the way to go, but I like this too, it will make sticks useful for something other than primitive bows.

Sounds good to me, I often thought that it was silly to need a shovel to dig a firepit.

So, to sum up this post, make a saddle quern and make fire pits easier to dig.

Ok, just to let you know, I am in the process of setting up a primitive grain grinder and a primitive oven. This will provide a way to cook some basic cooking accomplished, but proper ovens should be better at it! After all, there is some reason why tools are required, right?

Unfortunately don't expect the firepit to change soon. In the meantime though, for meat cooking, a spit only requires a knife. I know it is inefficient, but it is good enough to prevent starvation until more tools can be acquired.