Make bronze makeable

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Sho
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Postby Sho » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:56 pm

I have made a statues suggestion on http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=129659#129659, and have mentioned the possible use of bronze.
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Postby eric » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:05 pm

I agree with lumin, make it easier to make, and make it decay quickly. If you could make some sort of firepit that did not require an iron shovel, that would do it.
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Postby Pie » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:40 pm

I DISAGREE!!!!*Waits for somone to bring up the argument again, but cuts him off before he can say anything.* I DISAGREE!!!!

Make it better, but decay quicker.
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Postby Ahoyhoy » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:17 pm

Iron and steel should be more difficult to make than bronze that's all I gotta say.
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Postby SekoETC » Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:11 am

Shhh, remember that for example files and crowbars can only be made with steel, not bronze. (Funny thing bronze is used as a counterpart for steel when in fact iron is stronger than bronze.) Bronze can be more makeable on some undiscovered island, though it is insane that it requires phosphorous and zinc, such small amounts shouldn't have a very notable effect. Primitive bronze should be makeable with just tin and copper.
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The Sociologist
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Postby The Sociologist » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:31 am

SekoETC wrote:Primitive bronze should be makeable with just tin and copper.


I believe a big mistake was made when that whole range of bronze weapons was added. They should be removed, in my opinion, and bronze should be used for things like commemorative sculptures, bronze doors and any number of added game objects. But then bronze should be made with just tin and copper, as SekoETC said.

I really think the whole current bronze circus was the result of a certain amount of politicking among the staff. It's a real pity, since it would have had real potential for new objects and all that has been lost. Oh and please don't give me all that business about phosphorus on distant continents.

A few ships did call at Drojf once from a distant continent. What did they bring? Strange hemp clothes? Exotic daisy crowns? Unusual tropical papayas? No, they brought limestone, what else. :roll:

Get real, people.
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Sho
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Postby Sho » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:51 am

From my perspective, I hate all the bronze duplicates of iron or steel tools and weapons. I spent about three hours yesterday restructuring the wiki to handle them. Grr. Nobody's going to use the bronze stuff anyway.
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Postby wietse » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:40 am

I think the creation of the same tools in bronze as you have in iron only makes the game more complex without adding gameplay value.

Making the game more complex is fine as long as it adds something to the gameplay. Adding something for the sake of 'realism' only makes no sense to me....
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Postby SekoETC » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:21 pm

The Sociologist wrote:A few ships did call at Drojf once from a distant continent. What did they bring? Strange hemp clothes? Exotic daisy crowns? Unusual tropical papayas? No, they brought limestone, what else. :roll:


You see, you're not going to bring something that's abundant in your land since you presume everyone else has them as well. You bring something that's generally wanted. If my character was to send a ship to the "cotton island", limestone would be the first thing in mind since I get excess of it in trade and all the towns nearby already have a source of it. But the sailors themselves might be wearing hemp and daisies.
Imagine someone on the other side of the pond checking the character description of such a person and getting interested in trading. Perhaps switching their cotton clothes to the sailor's hemp clothes. That would be an interesting cultural encounter. But most likely the player can't think in character enough to remember that his character doesn't know cotton is more valuable. Not to mention the coast already has trade with other towns of the old island, so hemp cloth is not that rare.
And as for the limestone, you would be likely to hit the eastern coast, right?, where limestone is abundant. So it would be a trip wasted. But my character doesn't know this. So limestone it is.
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The Sociologist
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Postby The Sociologist » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:05 pm

SekoETC wrote:You see, you're not going to bring something that's abundant in your land since you presume everyone else has them as well. You bring something that's generally wanted.


Well, either way, the problem for me is that making an exotic material essential for technological innovation and expecting it to be traded across continents is simply not working. So unless phosphorus is taken out or else made available on the older islands, we simply won't ever see bronze products.
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Postby formerly known as hf » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:07 pm

That bronze making needs phosphourous in the first place is really tenuous.

Bronze age bronze smelting would not have needed phosphorous - the only reason I can possibly imagine that it was included in Cantr is to attempt to increase exploration to new lands.

The problem is, bronze isn't very valuable - steel is easier to make, it requires less travel, and so bronze is entirely useless as it is.
Even if someone did trade across continents with phosphourous, it wouldn't be of much value, despite the distance travelled, as no one would want bronze.

I really feel like bronze is (another) nice addition that ends up being entirely pointless because of the method of implementation...
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Postby WojD » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:48 pm

Maybe we should invent technology of gathering phosphorus from cod or trout - eg. 500g cod can give 1g of pure phosphorus when you refine it in smelting furnace or primitive oven;)
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Postby rklenseth » Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:03 am

This issue is currently being worked on in the
Resource Department.
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Postby Piscator » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:10 am

You are really working slow.
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Postby Nosajimiki » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:36 pm

REALLLLY SLOW.... :wink: , anyway I'm for the simplification method. Looking at some maps I see a few places on the old islands where bronze would likely become popular if it were only copper and tin... because that's about all that is there. Since these places are probably still kindof primitive being in the mountains, I think bronze weapons would be befiting. I'd also like to see bronze shields.
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