Cantr II Discussion Forum

I said "hardly" not "hard to". This is not about being difficult, it's about some weapons being worse than others in every single respect.

I'm sorry that you lost a goal, but I think the well of all the characters who are now actually able to use bronze outweighs the pleasure of owning a useless thing just because it's rare.

Piscator wrote:
(Is BBCode and smilies intentionally restricted to staff members in this thread? It says it is off and I can't turn them on.)

1)"All bronze weapons except the battle axe, the long sword and the bagh-nakh have been disabled, since they were hardly built anyway. When weapon diversification finally makes sense, we can (re)implement additional bronze weapons."

2)"Well, you can still build battle axes, swords and bagh-nakhs. If there's a really good argument for another weapon type, we can put it in, but I wouldn't like to have a weapon that simply has no advantages whatsoever. If you just want to have a collection, try to find one of the very few now obsolete weapons that have been built. It shouldn't be much more than a dozend."

I agree with pipok.
1) You say almost only battle axes, long swords and bagh-nakhs were made of bronze. Perhaps because making bronze was extremely difficult and once some character finally managed to have some, they wanted to make the best use of it. But now this may change if you re-enable all the weapons.

2) Following this you should have disabled all the iron weapons as well except for the battle axe, the long sword and the bagh-nakh. The others have "no advantages whatsoever". Same for lots of food.

It would make more sense to have daggers than bagh-nakhs since something that doesn't even have an English name is pretty obscure. It appears many people don't even understand what it looks like and don't bother to look it up. A short sword would also be a reasonable addition. If Cantr had a more complicated fighting system, a person couldn't use a shield with a two-handed weapon and that would justify making smaller, one-handed weapons even if they did less damage.

"Well of all characters"? What well do you bring to ANYONE by completely DISABLING an ability they had once?

If someone thinks that certain weapon is too difficult to make and not worth the effort - it should be HIS decision to try and have it anyway or not. Even if 99% people think a bronze dagger is worse than an iron one in every single respect - they were not forced to produce bronze daggres! But they COULD. Now you tell them all: no, you couldn't anymore. Why? Because YOU "wouldn't like to have a weapon that simply has no advantages whatsoever"! - because of this you have taken away this ability and now NOBODY can have a weapon he could have few days ago.

"I think the well of all the characters who are now actually able to use bronze outweighs the pleasure of owning a useless thing just because it's rare."

I'm not criticizing simplifying a process of producing bronze, but DISABLING THE ABILITY of producing most of bronze weapons. What is the well for characters from disabling them most of bronze weapons? They HAD a ability, now they HAVE NOT. It's the loss, not the well. You disables bronze weapons just because YOU DIDN'T LIKE them. Disabled them to all, including peoples who DID LIKE THEM. Is this game for players' fun or not?

How about bronze jewelery? The same reason?

almost only battle axes, long swords and bagh-nakhs were made of bronze. Perhaps because making bronze was extremely difficult and once some character finally managed to have some, they wanted to make the best use of it. But now this may change if you re-enable all the weapons.

Sadly it's just as true for for steel weapons. Seko made a statistic a while ago (http://www.forum.cantr.org/viewtopic.php?p=399882#p399882) that shows that pretty clearly. 90% of weapons are rarely built and probably even more rarely used. You could say with some justification that the weapon system is broken.
That's why I used the chance to disable most bronze weapons while there are none of them in existance. It makes a future overhaul of the weapons system much easier. I would be happy to (re)introduce more weapon types, but only after we decided about what to do with weapons in general.

It would make more sense to have daggers than bagh-nakhs since something that doesn't even have an English name is pretty obscure.

I guess you are right, although a knife should be close enough to a dagger to substitute it quite well.

There is no sense in this.

People couldn't make bronze weapons because bronze was very hard to make to begin with....

Now you've changed this and we'll be able to do bronze more easily but you also take away the options for using bronze? O.O

Of course you still can use bronze, it's just that your choice of weapons is (temporarily) limited to the more popular ones for the reasons I stated above.

What is the problem with leaving the option until you change in the future the weapon system?
Aren't weapons items like those used for roleplay?
Or is it that having more build options for weapons in particular affects the correct operation of the game?

Well, manufacturing projects have to be changed by ProgD after they have been initiated. This makes some kinds of changes pretty complicated to perform retroactively.

Globally, copper and tin are considerably more rare than hematite and limestone, but that doesn't really matter if copper and tin are more available where you live. You also need comparably little tin, which makes it easy to import.

More copper would definitely be nice though. Especially on Cantr Island, but I understand.

(I gave a few people using quotes BBCode, but I'm confuzzled as to why it was disabled..)

I hope that new weapon system will come soon then. :) BTW, I don't think any of my characters will make any bronze, but this step just seemed very unfair + unnecessary. But now I see the point, Piscator.
And I'm against disabling the bagh-nakhs. It is a unique weapon and widely used. Or was that about the bronze bagh-nakhs only, Seko? I hope so. :)

I didn't say they should be disabled, just that it would make more sense to have daggers than bagh-nakhs. Then again, if there's a bronze knife, that could be described as a dagger, even if it was one-sided.

As much as I like this simplifying of the making of bronze, I still don't see bronze in the near future for my Fu Island character.

But oh well. At least there's still hematite and limestone and coal on the map.

If you dont mind me asking a question what was the old weapon system? I heard it wasnt that good from some and the best ever from others on the FTO forums. I did like the FTO style.

Bump.

Clearly, the change to bronze production was made out of a serious misunderstanding of why bronze existed in the game to begin with. There was a small group of players in a developing region who did not have easy access to iron components. They did, however, have phosphorous. The bronze recipe was meant to be inaccessible to most other players, as iron was still being incentivised.

At this point, simplifying the recipe hasn’t done much harm. Can we please restore some more bronze tools? It’s impossible to imagine that the game still needs more iron.