Disassembling vehicles

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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Keegan Ingrassia » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:33 pm

DylPickle wrote:I suspect most parts couldn't be reduced because of the key problem they have stated above. Some parts can be made in a variety of ways, and there's no way of knowing after the part's been put together.

While I'd love to see garages and vehicle cargo capabilities in boats, that's a separate suggestion entirely (one that has been sitting in the accepted forum for an eternity). Being able to strip cars down to parts seems like a realistic compromise for the time being. The notion that it can be used to carry a dismantled vehicle to another continent is a good idea, and the time it would take to dismantle and reconstruct a vehicle on different sides of an ocean is time well spent, not time wasted. Time wasted is having to abandon your old vehicles and build new ones from scratch on the other side.

Agreed!

There was a colonization effort about 30 IG years ago, where pretty much that exact thing was done. All the pieces were constructed, then stored in the ship. Upon arrival pieces were taken out and assembled.

(Still want vehicle cargo capability for the larger ships, though...)
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DylPickle
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby DylPickle » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:38 pm

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:(Still want vehicle cargo capability for the larger ships, though...)


(Still want to see larger ships be more expensive) ;)
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Surly » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:01 pm

cooldevo wrote:I'm not saying that the proposed system is wrong, I just think we need to make sure it's done as fairly as possible to ensure that the way chosen doesn't end up opening any unintended loopholes or bugs. And it needs to take into account it's intended uses.
I understand that. Discussion is good. :) I just think getting resources back instead of parts is a bigger loophole, in this particular case.

cooldevo wrote:I think that disassembly for cars with the purpose of transportation isn't the most efficient route to take. I think we could and should find a better system for moving them. Taking several days to disassemble and then another several to reassemble one vehicle (on top of original build time) is a huge time sink for the benefit gained, in my opinion.
For sure, it would be better to have that system. But we've asking for that system for years and gotten nowhere. If we get some functionality through this now, and then the full system for storing vehicles on ships later on... have we lost out at all?

It's misleading to consider the original build time when working out time sunk. If it's a new vehicle, you'd simply build it in the new location. This disassembling affects only existing vehicles, so original build time is a sunk cost.

Lastly, if someone wanted the resources instead of the parts,they shouldn't have built/bought a vehicle. There is an element of "well, tough" in that regard, much like the way you don't get full resources back from a disassembled machine. If we want the ability to scrap vehicle parts, that's a different suggestion for a different thread.
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cooldevo
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby cooldevo » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:35 pm

Surly wrote:Lastly, if someone wanted the resources instead of the parts,they shouldn't have built/bought a vehicle


I have characters in several towns that have more vehicles than they know what to do with, or can sell. Some are rickshaws others are vehicles with engines. They didn't buy them all, than the owners died, disappeared, or were seized from criminals. Some of them have been around for several hundred days, and they can't sell them at all. One in particular would like to flat out remove them from service, not just take them apart for transportation. At the very least they would get parts back, which is a plus, but the materials would be of more benefit. Getting rid of 5 vehicles with engines back to parts wouldn't really solve anything other than cleaning up the buildings and vehicles list as they'd be stuck with parts that still couldn't be sold or used.

The only thing I am trying to say is that disassembling solely with transportation in mind would only cover one part of what disassembly would be needed for. Some people/towns just want to get rid of the excess, and it shouldn't be looked over. Maybe it ends up not being feasible, but looking at it may kill two birds with one stone in the meantime.

Are the modifications to load vehicles on ships a ProgD or RD task currently? Anything involving the RD, I'll step up to and take a look at.
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Doug R.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Doug R. » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:15 pm

Why can't we disassemble a vehicle for parts, then break down the parts for resources?
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Piscator » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:58 pm

Loading vehicles onto ships is a ProgD task, I'm afraid. The most basic solution would be to add an interface that enables you to dock to other vehicles/buildings while in the town square (and a mechanic to undock back into town/the next parent location). The docking code should be able to handle the rest, although the system would probably be a bit rough around the edges. For example, if you can load one vehicle on a boat, you would be able to load twenty, although the weight would of course become a limiting factor then.

I'd be in favor of first disassembling an object into parts and then the parts into resources. Seems like the most flexible solution.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby cooldevo » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:52 pm

Doug R. wrote:Why can't we disassemble a vehicle for parts, then break down the parts for resources?


With vehicles I don't think there is as serious an issue. The big difference would be if applied across the board. Which for consistency sake, I think it should be the same for vehicles, machines, tools, etc. Some things like pot stills can be made with different resources:
    Tubing: copper, tin, or iron
    Kettle: copper, tin, or steel

As far as I can see, and others have said, the system isn't able to tell the difference between the different combinations possible. Which resources would be returned if disassembled?
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Doug R. » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:46 pm

The easiest answer is to simply make objects which have multiple possible outputs non-disassemble-able.
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Surly
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Surly » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:57 pm

Vehicles and buildings are fundamentally different from machines. I don't see that there should therefore be any problems with the systems being non-identical. The important thing is to have continuity within each sub-category (e.g. vehicles, or buildings, or tools or clothes), rather than one overarching identical system.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Piscator » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:00 pm

From my perspective, both machines and vehicles are just objects in the database. There's nothing fundamental about it. Just saying.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Surly » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:03 pm

Piscator wrote:From my perspective, both machines and vehicles are just objects in the database. There's nothing fundamental about it. Just saying.
But vehicles are not just objects in the database, they are locations in the database; therefore there is a fundamental difference. Just saying.
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Cwalen
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby Cwalen » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:26 pm

There are no objects in a database unless you are mixing your metaphors.

There is data, contained in tables which have relations.

(that's about my limit) The way a conceptual structure that is represented in the database is stored has some fairly profound effects on the ease that any given manipulation can be performed. (and that is well past my limit)

I'll ask the bigger question. Is letting people rip apart vehicles, either to transport them or to scrap them a good idea?

I would say yes, they are littering the landscape. We cant hide them from newspawns, and we cant answer the question" you have ten times more vehicles than people why should I work for one rather than work for a crowbar and go two towns away?"

Letting the world beat the vehicles into scrap metal, preferably easily, might give someone, some time soon, a reason to build a new vehicle. That sounds like a good thing to me.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby cooldevo » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:45 pm

Doug R. wrote:The easiest answer is to simply make objects which have multiple possible outputs non-disassemble-able.

I could get behind this looking at the current implementation of disassembly and machines that can be made with different materials.

Surly wrote:I don't see that there should therefore be any problems with the systems being non-identical.

Can our current implementation of disassembly allow for this? And if not, how much work/time would it take to add this kind of functionality? My understanding is that everything that is 'disassemble-able' falls under the same disassembly code (except for locks).

If it could be done easily and rolled out very quickly I would get behind a system that was the same per sub-category. That would allow for a lot more flexibility to resources and items.
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby wadko » Mon May 16, 2011 10:44 am

Just a though, can't you implement disassembling vehicles but only those simple like wooden carts, bikes, etc? Those vehicles don't have parts, only resources so it should be easier to code (or whatever the problem is with disassembling cars and motorbikes).
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Re: Disassembling vehicles

Postby EchoMan » Mon May 16, 2011 10:47 am

I would like that. Some places has -a lot- of small wooden carts.

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